what else?

[johnyenglish]

im trying to use all stuff you can get fromthe local garden centre. now im 5ishwks in and iv been using westlands with ji(which now should have used up all nutes that it had in it to start with) and tomrite and mollasses i water water feed over a space of a wk or so iv 10under 1 600hp 5 are are on canna terra and 5 on the tomrite and they all look nice but what i want to know is is the tomrite enough on its own. i know someone will say ""dont use anything else but the stuff thats made for it" but if you look in the canna mags they dont have cannabis plants in them! so keeping it simple whats people useing apart from the gear you get from the hydro shops, which in my oppinion is the same shit different label and price!.cheers all

[nuube]

Good question. I use the same but then had pk 13/14 from a hydro experiment so use some of that now.

Also I got big bud bloom booster and carboload free from Greens hydro, (thank you very much Greens), so have been using some of that this grow but never before and to be honest I can't see any bit difference from my last grow, (although there have been some probs with this one).

[Budbain]

superthrive good shit aswell, Won the war apparantly

[Woody J]

Canna can't use pics of weed in their pics because of its legality in the UK and around the world. The ONLY nutrient manufacturer that openly states it is formulated for weed is Advanced Nutrients.

Why do you think Tomorite is called Tomorite? Because it is good for feeding daffodils? No, because it is formulated for feeding Tomato's! Cannabis isnt a tomato variety or even related to the plant.

I find your post a bit irritating to be honest, asking for advice then saying you wont be taking it!
I could give you lots of GOOD advice, but on second thoughts, why bother.
W

[nuube]

Canna can't use pics of weed in their pics because of its legality in the UK and around the world. The ONLY nutrient manufacturer that openly states it is formulated for weed is Advanced Nutrients.

Why do you think Tomorite is called Tomorite? Because it is good for feeding daffodils? No, because it is formulated for feeding Tomato's! Cannabis isnt a tomato variety or even related to the plant.

I find your post a bit irritating to be honest, asking for advice then saying you wont be taking it!
I could give you lots of GOOD advice, but on second thoughts, why bother.
W

IN fairness I don't see him/her saying they wont take advice, they are even doing their own test, that's goo din my book.

ALSO - I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, so you can post and maybe inform others?

[Woody J]

Fair enough Nuube, I was reading between the lines too much I think.
I could write an essay on why I found the OP a little irritating but I am a fair guy and although you have not had a pop @ me, you would be within your rights to do so.

Is Tomorite enough on its own? Yes.
Will you get the high yields others get in the same conditions? Almost certainly not.

I mentioned in the previous post why I am not a fan of Tomorite for MJ.
I use it on my tomato's, just not on my £600 per plant cannabis plants!
I love my plants, lavish care and attention on them and come harvest time, I thank them, then chop them up!
I want my girls to have the best nutrition I can give them, if that means spending a few quid on a product that has gone through massive research and been formulated for them then I will.
An analogy for you.
Next year is Olympic year in London. All those athletes will be on specific diets to maximise their output. A long distance runner will be on high carbs. The Boxer will be on high protein. The driver taking them to the events will be on big mac's.
I want my plants to be runners or boxers not cabbies (no offence to cabbies).

I wont go through a list of what I use throughout a grow. I have been fortunate in knowing someone who got me nutrients at cost price and gave me loads of samples. So I have used just about everything there is on the market.

Tomorite will do a job for you and you will get some decent smoke from it but are you allowing the plant to reach its potential? No, to do this, you need to be sensible and think about what you are asking.
You want a plant to grow a good root base, be free of desease, mould & bugs, You want a good number of short spaced internodes. Once flowering starts, nutritional needs change as the plant begins building flowers and resin.

Pick a strong strain that is resistant to mould etc.
A root booster is a good idea in veg. The roots are the key to a good yield.
Mychorrizae and Trichaderma are 2 beneficials I feel every marijuana grower should become familiar and "friendly" with. If used correctly, they can boost growth by something like 30%. For me, these 2 are the most effective boosters for roots and flowers you can get.
Enzyme products help get rid of dead organic matter in the root zone, keeping the roots healthy.

The nutritional needs of flowering are high potassium and phosphate and low nitrogen so something with npk ratio's that reflect this is needed, avoid stuff that has an npk ratio of 20-20-20 for example.
Flowering boosters help the plant by giving them the building blocks for packing on flowers.
A good quality bloom feed, even if it is for an acid loving flower (which tomato's are), is essential since it will have the correct nutritional balance for a plant to build flowers.
AN have a product called Hammerhead pk 4/10 that outperforms pk 13/14 by a huge margine. (30% in side by side testing I did)
A lot of growers experience early yellowing in flowering, 2 weeks in and bottom leaves start to yellow. This is often misdiagnosed as an N deficiency or even an Mg def when in reality, it is most likely to be a K def. Using the Hammerhead should stop this.

If you want a shortlist of 2 or 3 key things to buy, I would say Hammerhead and Big Bud. They both do exactly what it says on the tin.
There is a problem though. Only buy this stuff if you have a dialled in space.
Far too often, growers spend a lot of money on products trying to make up for bad practices and bad environment so a hygrometer/thermometer should be top of your wish list if you dont already have them.
Temps, Humidity, Genetics, Light (lumen count and spectrum), Water quality, correct ph, effective air exchange, quality nutrition are all just about equally important.
As you can see, nutrition is a small part of the whole thing. The boxer without skill or talent will get his head knocked off. The runner who is afraid of guns will shit himself when he hears the starting pistol.
So, no matter how good their nutrition, they are doomed to failure.
Buy the best nutrients available, the full Expert AN catalogue of products along with Avian mineral water will still do no good with crap genetics in a poor environment.

So, the best advice I can give any grower, new or old is sort out your environment before you spend money on expensive boosters and pk supplements. Learn the parameters of successfull growers environments.

My apologies if I was less than polite in my previous post.
W

[Mr Swilly]

I use and will continue to use tomorite, but I did need a splash of pk in middle of flower to boost the p.
I have used biobizz, hesi, hammerhead and cannaboost in the past. I can say that results with molasses, tomorite and pk are remarkably similar to bio bloom, hammerhead and cannaboost, using the same soil and light etc. without the pk addition to tomorite and molasses, I was not getting the thickness and senseless on the top colas.
Just me experience using the above. The hammerhead was the pk9/18 version.

[Stimpy]

You are right Woody, I understand the OP's point and motives tho.
Until a couple of months ago I had never been in a grow shop, and tried to use garden centre stuff as well. It will grow but just not as well.

It was kinda daunting walking into the grow shop for the first time, a bit like going into a porn shop lol. The guys in there are pretty good tho, I even got a load of free sample nutes because I told the guy I had no idea what I needed or what was best. Online shopping for grow stuff is a minefield imo unless you have tried it all before and are buying with experience.

Go to the grow shop, they don't bite.

[nuube]

WoodyJ - great post, I love a good analogy as I can get my head round things better.

OK you have sold me on the need to get better nutes. As of now I use the tomato-rite or other generic feed with a high P & K. I use Rhizotonic in the early weeks of veg and PK 13/14 along with the others mentioned in my earlier post. I have had probs with pH which was down to the nutes being quit acidic.

I will stick with the PK 13/14 until finished and will then switch to the hammerhead, (although what is the difference in 4/10 & 9/18?).

What would you, (and anyone else for that matter), recommend as a good, (reasonably cheap), set of specialist cannabis nutes?

So what about hydro nutes, can I use canna vega and flores for a soil grow? Surely they could be used?

Thanks again for the reply.

[Woody J]

As I said, Tomorite will do a job but I have done a side by side with it and Ionic about 6 years ago. Maybe because it was in hydro it was an unfair test but the Ionic produced around double the Tomorite.
Which brings me to Nuube's Q, I am not certain the difference between 4/10 and 9/18, I thought they were the same thing. The point with them is the ratio of Potassium to Phosphorous is much higher than with Canna's pk13/14. Canna's pk boost is good, dont get me wrong, just not as good as Hammerhead.
For nutes, I love AN, I would run the full range every time if I could afford them but nearly £700 for a full range of nutrients is a bit silly. So, what do I use. Trachaderma and Mycohrrizae for beneficials and an enzyme product, A root booster while in veg and in flower a pk supplement as well as a flowering booster (Big Bud). This is in hydro or soil.
The mentored grow with Strider is a good example of what can be achieved in hydro just using Ionic nutes. He is using a root booster as well as a veg boost on top of the Ionic nutes. They are not expensive, around £11 for a 2l bottle in my local hydro store. http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?53993-Striders-Delahaze-Death-Weedgie-Cannabucket-with-Woody-J-as-Mentor&p=1068924065#post1068924065
The AN veg nutes are around £30 for 8l, making them much cheaper per l by buying in bulk. Because AN Sensi is a 2-part nutrient, the smallest amount you can buy is 2l, which come in at around £12. This is pretty much the price you will pay for 2l of top quality nutrition. Canna, AN, GHE, Dutch Pro, Atami, Hesi and Bio Bizz are all more or less cannabis specific nutes so any from that range will do a good job.

The secret here is to find a nutrient you are happy and comfortable with, get to know how your plants respond to it and you will do well. It is more about getting that environment perfect and having good nutrition just adds that icing to the big fat bud cake.
This is why good growers, such as Mr.S get the results they do using Tomorite! I am pretty sure their environments are just about perfect, which means the nutrients job isnt as significant as it is with growers with poorer environments. This is the point I was trying to make in my last post.

Hope I have not waffled on too long again, I seem to have a habit of doing that!
W

[nuube]

Cheers woody, but feck me £700 would only be the tip of the iceberg for me I would then have to pay for a divorce if Mrs nuube found out I'd spent that much!

Still mad to know about hydro nutes, can I use canna vega and flores for a soil grow? It may not be perfect but I imagine it should have most if not all of what the plant would need, wouldn't it?