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Thread: 1st Grow - White Widow: its the future, I've tasted it!

  1. #51

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    Default Help, poorly looking leaves!!!

    Hi All, In Urgent need of some advice!!!

    just been into the tent just now - been busy working all yesterday and today so not been in to check much and the lower leaves of the plant arnt looking very good, in fact they look like their dying!!!

    Anyway we are ready for a water, as the top of the Canna is dry and the last two waters have been
    1st no nutes - (trying to get to the mites / no mites issue to see what was causing the speckling on the middle leaves)
    Then 2nd water (latest) half strenght nutes.

    As mentioned the're ready for a water now, but now not sure if the symptoms I'm seeing are some form of nute burn of nute deficiency as they are showing signs of both:
    Burn - lower leaf tips looking burnt
    Deficiency (N) Lower leaves a very yellow, shrivelling and now started to go brown!! Dont think its Mg as all the top leaves are fine!

    Could the shrivelling just be due to lack of water - as they were due a watering yesterday but never got round to it with Work, by the time I'd finished it was lights out! Help pls!!!!!

    Pics...
    (the 1st pic is a bit misleading as its come out greener than it actually is - check the last pick for a true comparison of how yellow the've gone.









    And finally as shot of a collection of yellowing leaves, you can see the higher ones are still nice and healthy lookin!



    Planning on doing a full recommended doesage of Canna A& B (4ml of each / ltr) as its in Coco so no nutes in the soil.

    Cheers All
    Eh! toilet mouth... there's a child's bike outside!

  2. #52

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    after reading a few other threads and doing a bit of research I think it was Nitrogen deficiency - which would be about right as we missed the water / feed by about a day and a half (still learning...), they were completely dry yesterday but didnt get time to water them, wont be making that mistake again (lesson learnt!!)

    Gave them a good run off, they must have been thirsty took a shit load of feeding! gave em just enough till run off appeared. with the max recommended does from the Canna feeding schedule 35m / 10l - hope this was OK and those signs were N deficiency and not nute burn? Took an educated guess it was deficiency due to the two prev. waters being plain water and half strength nutes - guess they were telling us they needed a bit of food?

    I take it these leaves wont recover, will they just fall off eventually?

    Will this have done any major harm to the grow or are things still going to be OK? If someone could confirm what they think the pics were showing (deficiency or burn) that'd put my mind at rest!

    On a quick seperate note, does anyone have any experience with Canna A n B nutes? just wondering if they will have enough of the right nutes (Nitrogen & Potasium?) to take them through to Harvest - any tips? We have got PK13/14 for week 5 as another quick pick me up.

  3. #53

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    Congratulations on the Girls Potter!!! you must be pleased as punch.

    As MT said your leaves that are already affected won't get any better.

    You seem to be doing your research and as you have seen the advice from the guys is priceless so i wouldn't panic as these guys will help you as much as they can!!! So I look forward seeing the old bud porn!!!


    "Rawwww you go girl......Show them men folk how its done!" - BomShiva.

    ESB x MH , ESB & WW Grow Diary

  4. #54

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    Hiya Matey ..

    I'd like to be able to tell you for sure what this is but i'm not familiar with growing in coco so wouldn't want to mislead you, wait for one of the more experienced growers to make a judgement call ..

    But ... my gut reaction to those pics is Nute Burn, not deficiency ... this is based on my experience from my 1st grow, If it is deficiency its as bad as i've ever seen .. but dont let that worry you too much as deficiency can be corrected a lot easier.


    I'd expect to see that sort of discolouration along with browning leaves, possible necrotic on the ends from nute burn. this damage does not recover & the leaf will die off in the next few days.

    The best way to stop it from getting worse if it is nute burn is to flush the pot through with 3x the pot volume of clean plain water to clear out the excessive nutrient.

    the only thing i've ever had with deficiency is a lightening of the leaf which can become very light if no nutes are given .. however, if you get the nutes in in time the damage can be repaired with the leaf returning to a nice healthy colour.

    Is it different in different growing mediums ?, dont think so but as i said i cant be 100% fo ya M8 ..

    Where's LK, Diaper or Asci when you need em !!
    Last edited by Midnight Toker; 03-09-07 at 10:57 PM.

  5. #55

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    Thanks for the comments Sweet and MT....

    Happy as sand boy Sweet (what is a sand boy by the way - what a daft saying...) only now were feeling like neglectful parents!

    I only hope its not nute burn MT as guessing it was under nutes I fed em at nr full strength last nigth as they were in dire need of a drink.

    not sure about Coco... bit of a daft choice in the grow shop, was recommended to us and us being noobs decided to give it a go..

    From what I've learnt about the difference between coco and soil is that the coco doesnt contain any nutes as a growing medium and due to the lower feeds we'd given it over the past two weeks made me think it was a deficiency not burn but you may well be right as it is displaying signs of both:

    - Accute discolouration on the lower leaves, (yellowing)
    - Shriveling on lower leaves (possibly from lack of water?)
    - But has burnt tips on these lower leaves which does indicate a bit of burn...

    Gotta do some work now but will check on them throughout the day to see if it worsens, then I'll do a bit more research tonight to see if I can find any similar problems in coco.

    I have checked through most of the grow diaries on here and Edit but there anrnt that many I've seen using Coco, and those I've found I dont remember them having problems similar to those were currently experiencing.

    If KV's reading, could you give us a tip on your feeding schedule with Canna A&B, saw that you were using it with coco the other day in the general growing section... and with good results from the looks of it!

    Cheers all, the dreaded work beccons...

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianPotter View Post
    Thanks for the comments Sweet and MT....

    Happy as sand boy Sweet (what is a sand boy by the way - what a daft saying...) only now were feeling like neglectful parents!

    I only hope its not nute burn MT as guessing it was under nutes I fed em at nr full strength last nigth as they were in dire need of a drink.

    not sure about Coco... bit of a daft choice in the grow shop, was recommended to us and us being noobs decided to give it a go..

    From what I've learnt about the difference between coco and soil is that the coco doesnt contain any nutes as a growing medium and due to the lower feeds we'd given it over the past two weeks made me think it was a deficiency not burn but you may well be right as it is displaying signs of both:

    - Accute discolouration on the lower leaves, (yellowing)
    - Shriveling on lower leaves (possibly from lack of water?)
    - But has burnt tips on these lower leaves which does indicate a bit of burn...

    Gotta do some work now but will check on them throughout the day to see if it worsens, then I'll do a bit more research tonight to see if I can find any similar problems in coco.

    I have checked through most of the grow diaries on here and Edit but there anrnt that many I've seen using Coco, and those I've found I dont remember them having problems similar to those were currently experiencing.

    If KV's reading, could you give us a tip on your feeding schedule with Canna A&B, saw that you were using it with coco the other day in the general growing section... and with good results from the looks of it!

    Cheers all, the dreaded work beccons...
    hey mr potter how you doing m8.

    i use coco all the time and for this grow have started using coco a=b and hammerhead pk9/18(for flowering).

    to start with i have a load of 2 litre bottles that i fill with water and every plant is getting one bottle each atm. it recommends 4ml per litre for both. i started with 1ml per litre of both in the first two weeks of life(from seed) then at 3weeks went up to 4ml per litre which is still the dose im using now. i started the hammerhead in week 2 of flower at 1ml per litre going up to 2ml per litre by week 3. also every 4th feed i give them water only. and i wait till they are all dried up and a little droopy.

    if you look through my previous grow on edit i was getting similar probs with yellowing lower leaves which will hapeen sometimes and will be nowt to worry about. if i remeber right i was told that when in flower expect the lower leaves to turn a littl eyellow as the plant needs the nutes for the buds so the leaves dont get as much as they need therefore turning yellow and dying.

    however your leaves look a little more than just yellowing. i wish i could help a bit more mate but am sure it wont be long b4 lk or asci etc pops in and helps you out. keep an eye out for now though and make sure the yellowing isnt spreading up the way.

    http://www.canna-uk.com/products_coco/coco_about.html

    have a look on there though m8 for schedules and the like.

  7. #57

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    You're quite right KV about the leaves yellowing when late in flower, they do use up all the goodies stored within the leaf during the last couple of weeks so it's quite normal to see them dying off during the run in ..

    But this is far too early for that to be happening here ...

    i think i'd flush em through so you know the nutes have not been overdone, let them go dry & then try another weak feed building up over the course of a week or so ....

    Also i'm not sure i'd have given em that huge dose of nutes until i knew what was happening M8 ...

  8. #58

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    Thanks KV and Midnight,

    Looks like my diagnosis was a bit off, thinking about it there are a few burnt tips so it is highly likely its been caused by a nute build up.

    the misses took the photos into the grow shop on the quiet and he confirmed it was burn. He uses coco all the time and said we shouldnt have let it go that dry (he actually suggested watering each day which does seem a tad excessive??), he told us that all the water had evepourated and nutes remained in the medium causing it to go a bit too toxic (or something like that?!). Do you guys think this sounds about right? any ideas on the watering each day comment, as the last thing I want now it to begin overwatering (not going for a full house of plant abuse!!)

    We flushed completely with plain water on my lunch break and hopefully there now in recovery (really do feel like a neglectful parent now - will be on Trisha next lol), the ec of the run off was around 1.0 by the end of each flush. I think the water yesterday didn't do much harm as the run off last night was really yellowy wereas today, after the flush it was a tad clearer despite fert'ing last night, so I think it helped a bit to get rid of some of the build-up and give em a drink, so hopefully not all that bad!

    Going to gradually re-introduce the A&B over the next couple of weeks - will this harm the bud formation i.e. lack of nutes over the first few weeks of flowering?

    Thanks for the link KV, I had already been onto the canna site in the first few weeks of the grow, but looks like I'll have to register on there in order to get the really useful info (just overly paranoid about registering for some reason...).

    We've now got a 'special batton'?!? to measure the EC of the water/feed mix and the run-off in future, so we can tell if the the mediums got too many nutes. Not entirely sure from the explanation he gave how we can use it effectively so will have to have a think?!

    Do you think this will have harmed the grow to much as the yellowing / burning is pretty much limited to the bottom two layers of leaves, and there's plenty more green foliage remaining...?

    So all in all Bollocks... still you live an learn!, that's why we started on the cheaper seeds! all mistakes from this grow will become invaluable on the next - off to Amsterdam at the NY so will hopefully come back with a few 'souveneir' packects of quality seeds!

    Will try and get some pics up of the 4 ladies at the weekend, not much movement on them at the moment - not surprised considerin the crap we've put em through.

  9. #59

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    i reckon that was a good move to flush em M8.

    take it easy with the nutes when you do restart.

    If plants are overly stressed during flowering they can go lady boy on you, but looks like it was more of a nute misbalance so hopefully it wont do them too much harm, it might take an extra week or 2 to finish but it should still get there.

    These plants are tough little fookers !

  10. #60

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    yeah it would seem like flushing was the right thing to do but i would be wary of watering everyday potter, especially if there are nutes in every feed. i let mine dry out regularly before watering again and it doesnt have any ill affect.

    be careful about some of the advice you get in hydro shops m8. ive learned that the hard way. got some real shit advice from the grow shop i go to.

    you will get no better advice than that of people like lk, asc, matt etc on here my friend

    also the link mate was just so you get there reccomended grow schedule for coco and have a look

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