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Thread: The Quest for Long-Lived, Perpetually-Flowering Auto Strains.

  1. #11

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    In theory you would only be able to grow out the remaining shoots on the auto plant as there is no way to stop the plant from flowering.

    This has mainly been overlooked as you can just clone from a photoperiod as well as reveg it. These two aren't possible with autos.

    When you refer to summer - if the light schedule outside is greater than 13 hours of light a day it is possible that a photoperiod plant with reveg after harvest.

    BudLightyear has a good pic of a plant that he revegged outside from a harvested plant.

    Autos are quick and less hassle in most cases.
    What would be the benefit of a auto that could do this if photoperiod can already?



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  3. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Aspie Toker View Post
    Thank you, but there are many more people on here with more medals than I.

    Close, it's short for Asperger's.

    Most people on here are from the UK where selling is illegal. Not only that, we are personal growers only.

    I've never heard of perpetually-flowering, long-lived autos. Could you please explain more. Thank you.
    Sure, i'd be happy to explain more.

    Selling _what_ is illegal in the UK ?
    I've only suggested selling seeds, not cannabis.
    Is selling seeds illegal in the UK ?

    Longevity:
    (1) There is some doubt about whether Ruderalis dies off due the harsh winter weather
    or whether Ruderalis dies off because it's just 'programmed' to die after flowering.
    (2) It's been suggested to me that Ruderalis will continue to flower during
    an artificially extended summer. I suspect this is true.
    (3) Occasionally you hear stories of strains that survive through multiple
    winters either because they've been grown indoors or because they been
    deliberately placed into a vegetative state using lights... or they've been
    grown outdoors in temperate regions which experience mild winters...
    (eg Jamaica, spain, north africa etc)

    And let's not forget the evidence of the perpetual weed strains of the Island of Reunion.
    Google: 'Perpetual weed Reunion', to find that story.
    So ... the genes for multi-year longevity is already out there.
    Potentially, those genes are already in our Auto plants.

    Our ignorance on this issue persists because, growers routinely
    kill cannabis plants during the harvest. So we never learn which
    auto varieties, or which individual plants, have the perpetual flowering
    capability... and which varieties, or individual plants, have multi-year
    longevity.

    If growers were to harvest only the bud and not the leaves, then the
    plant will survive the first harvest and may send up new shoots for new flowers
    ... and provide a second harvest... and potentially a third harvest etc.
    The plants that do this, are those from which, we should collect the seeds;
    These plants will have a massive commercial value.

    Also, harvesting the bud, and not the leaves, allowing the plant to survive the
    first harvest, will give you the opportunity to figure how long this plant will live.
    Will it live and give new flowers according to the photo period ?
    Will it live to provide a second and third harvest and then die ?
    Will it live 2 years, 3 years, 5 years, 10 years ?

    I'm suggesting, it would be very profitable for growers/breeders to sell
    the seeds of a long-lived and perpetually-flowering strain.
    It would also be a huge benefit to the wider cannabis consuming community.

    I hope that helps.

    best wishes

    cryptolab

  4. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggotch View Post
    read what i could but bit baked but personally i mentally hit delete at "denizen",im certainly not a fkg denizen,none of us are denizens,none of us are locked to any particlular location in life,here at least. we are completely free
    yep 60yrs of not liking condescension..
    or possibly condensation
    I'm not quite sure what's going on emotionally with your reply.
    But i would like to know, just so i have a peg to hang an understanding on.

    It reminds me strongly of watching comedy films like Mr Bean or The Pink Panther.
    You clearly don't know what denizen means, and you didn't bother to look it up.
    It just means, 'locals' or 'people that hang out (somewhere)'.
    There's nothing derogatory in it... and there was no condescension.
    Or is it, that you felt that my post was condescending,
    because you didn't understand 'denizens' ?

  5. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stirl_420_SA View Post
    In theory you would only be able to grow out the remaining shoots on the auto plant as there is no way to stop the plant from flowering.

    This has mainly been overlooked as you can just clone from a photoperiod as well as reveg it. These two aren't possible with autos.

    When you refer to summer - if the light schedule outside is greater than 13 hours of light a day it is possible that a photoperiod plant with reveg after harvest.

    BudLightyear has a good pic of a plant that he revegged outside from a harvested plant.

    Autos are quick and less hassle in most cases.
    What would be the benefit of a auto that could do this if photoperiod can already?



    Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk
    hi Stiri_420_SA,

    I suspect, that you can clone an auto strain.
    But i don't know anyone that's done it.
    But to the best of my knowledge, all, or virtually all, plants can be cloned.

    The point you make, about not being able to re-veg an auto hits the the very
    heart of my suspicions that autos are potentially perpetually flowering.

    Consider this scenario: You raise an Auto strain, and you do some low-stress harvesting
    (cutting off the ripe parts of the buds, in stages, every 5 days, for a few weeks and
    you make a point of leaving all the leaves on the plant, to maximise it's survival chances).
    Then you come to the point when there's no more bud to harvest.

    What stage is the plant now in ?
    Maybe the plant is still in a flowering stage and will put out new shoots for new flowers.
    If this happens, than that's fantastic, this means this plant is capable of delivering a second
    harvest, perhaps a third... perhaps it will harvest perpetually.

    Or maybe, the plant is in a vegetative stage.
    Although the auto trait means the plant goes from seedling to flowering, it doesn't
    necessarily mean the plant is incapable of vegging.
    Perhaps the Ruderalis genes simply disable vegging prior to flowering.
    If the plant doesn't re-flower, and survives the winter into year 2, then
    presumably this demonstates that the plant retains a vegetative capacity.
    That's also fantastic news, this plant is a source of multi-year longevity genes.

    The longer the plant is kept alive, the greater will be the plant's root development
    (assuming there's sufficient 'bucket room' for it's roots to grow into).
    The greater the plants root development, the heavier will be it's harvest.
    So we expect that the size of the year 1 harvest(s) to be obviously
    smaller than the year 2 harvest(s).

    Your question is:
    What would be the benefit of a auto that could do this if photoperiod can already?

    My answer would be in terms of convenience and low maintenance.
    I imagine my grandparents growing and harvesting these plants.
    If the plants are perpetually flowering then it means there's no harvesting 'mission'.
    The harvest can be performed on an ad hoc basis... a few grams 5 days or so.
    If the plant has a multi-year lifespan, then there's no clean-up-and-throw-away
    stage, every 4 to 6 months. Instead you just leave her in the bucket, let her
    work on that root development.

    A long-lived, perpetually-flowering auto strain, is intended for elderly & medical MJ users.
    They may not have good mobility, or they have low energy, or poor concentration
    etc. The strain should be, a very low maintenance strain, requiring minimal time and effort.

    best wishes

    cryptolab
    Last edited by cryptolab; 31-10-17 at 08:14 AM.

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    Do you work in sales and marketing cryptolab your use off buzzwords and analogies makes me think you do lol...

    While I think any experimentation in the field is a good thing I still don't see the point man. A photo does everything that your asking in my opinion... If it's to help people with low mobility can you really say there is that much difference in work between auto and photo 🤔

    You clearly know your stuff mate but I'm just not sure it's going to be as revolutionary as you think but by all means don't stop what your doing any research is good research to me man 👍

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    Quote Originally Posted by cryptolab View Post
    Sure, i'd be happy to explain more.

    Selling _what_ is illegal in the UK ?
    I've only suggested selling seeds, not cannabis.
    Is selling seeds illegal in the UK ?

    Longevity:
    (1) There is some doubt about whether Ruderalis dies off due the harsh winter weather
    or whether Ruderalis dies off because it's just 'programmed' to die after flowering.
    (2) It's been suggested to me that Ruderalis will continue to flower during
    an artificially extended summer. I suspect this is true.
    (3) Occasionally you hear stories of strains that survive through multiple
    winters either because they've been grown indoors or because they been
    deliberately placed into a vegetative state using lights... or they've been
    grown outdoors in temperate regions which experience mild winters...
    (eg Jamaica, spain, north africa etc)

    And let's not forget the evidence of the perpetual weed strains of the Island of Reunion.
    Google: 'Perpetual weed Reunion', to find that story.
    So ... the genes for multi-year longevity is already out there.
    Potentially, those genes are already in our Auto plants.

    Our ignorance on this issue persists because, growers routinely
    kill cannabis plants during the harvest. So we never learn which
    auto varieties, or which individual plants, have the perpetual flowering
    capability... and which varieties, or individual plants, have multi-year
    longevity.

    If growers were to harvest only the bud and not the leaves, then the
    plant will survive the first harvest and may send up new shoots for new flowers
    ... and provide a second harvest... and potentially a third harvest etc.
    The plants that do this, are those from which, we should collect the seeds;
    These plants will have a massive commercial value.

    Also, harvesting the bud, and not the leaves, allowing the plant to survive the
    first harvest, will give you the opportunity to figure how long this plant will live.
    Will it live and give new flowers according to the photo period ?
    Will it live to provide a second and third harvest and then die ?
    Will it live 2 years, 3 years, 5 years, 10 years ?

    I'm suggesting, it would be very profitable for growers/breeders to sell
    the seeds of a long-lived and perpetually-flowering strain.
    It would also be a huge benefit to the wider cannabis consuming community.

    I hope that helps.

    best wishes

    cryptolab
    Longevity:

    "(1) There is some doubt about whether Ruderalis dies off due the harsh winter weather

    or whether Ruderalis dies off because it's just 'programmed' to die after flowering."

    As I said previously - there is no way to stop it from flowering so weather conditions aside, it will flower and die off after all nodes have flowered out.

    "(2) It's been suggested to me that Ruderalis will continue to flower during
    an artificially extended summer. I suspect this is true."

    Ruderalis strains once in flower cannot revert back to veg stage in order to regrow leaves and shoots. Light cycle does not affect their ability to reveg either. So whether it's summer or winter it wouldn't make a difference.

    "(3) Occasionally you hear stories of strains that survive through multiple
    winters either because they've been grown indoors or because they been
    deliberately placed into a vegetative state using lights... or they've been
    grown outdoors in temperate regions which experience mild winters...
    (eg Jamaica, spain, north africa etc)"

    These strains are Photoperiods.
    My point still stands - why would you need an auto to do this of a photo can do it already ?
    Cost seems to be of concern to you and photoperiod are cheaper in the long run as you can clone as much as you like and have unlimited plants off of a mother. Instead of having to constantly purchase seeds.


    "So ... the genes for multi-year longevity is already out there.
    Potentially, those genes are already in our Auto plants."

    A Cannabis plant can be kept for many years. Multi-year longevity comes in when people reveg the plants. They don't just recognise that buds have been cut off and revert to veg for a few weeks to produce new shoots and then go back to flowering ? This is impossible when conditions are stable and light cycle is not changing.

    Also not the difference I make between Veg and Flower periods.
    Veg - 18/6.
    Flower - 12/12.

    Go by this and not "summer or winter"

    "Our ignorance on this issue persists because, growers routinely
    kill cannabis plants during the harvest. So we never learn which
    auto varieties, or which individual plants, have the perpetual flowering capability... and which varieties, or individual plants, have multi-year longevity."

    An auto is born, enters seedling stage for a week or two, then into veg for two weeks or till it reaches about the 4th node, it then flowers with no way of stopping this. To simply leave behind the leaves after cutting will not lead to new veg growth.

    I currently have an auto receiving 24 hours of light with no sign of reverting back to vegetative stage.


    "If growers were to harvest only the bud and not the leaves, then the
    plant will survive the first harvest and may send up new shoots for new flowers
    ... and provide a second harvest... and potentially a third harvest etc."


    A lot of your statements are normative and speak of what 'should' happen when in actual fact cannabis does not work in that way.*

    "Also, harvesting the bud, and not the leaves, allowing the plant to survive the
    first harvest, will give you the opportunity to figure how long this plant will live.
    Will it live and give new flowers according to the photo period ?"

    This confuses me - what do you mean by give new flowers according to the photoperiod?* It's an auto flower so no.

    More to follow

    Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk

  9. #17

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    "I suspect, that you can clone an auto strain.
    But i don't know anyone that's done it.
    But to the best of my knowledge, all, or virtually all, plants can be cloned."

    You cannot. I have done it. I have a hydroponic cloner and in its two- three weeks it took to root there were no signs of reveg only more bud growth* (under 24/0)


    "The point you make, about not being able to re-veg an auto hits the the very
    heart of my suspicions that autos are potentially perpetually flowering."

    You are not considering that fact that once a plant is harvested that it does not just sprout up stems for the next flowering cycle. This is induced in photoperiod plants with an extension in the light cycle.
    Autos are continuely flowering rather than perpetually flowering. They flower off once and that is it.

    These genetics you speak of are not likely to be found in an Auto lad.

    "Consider this scenario: You raise an Auto strain, and you do some low-stress harvesting
    (cutting off the ripe parts of the buds, in stages, every 5 days, for a few weeks and
    you make a point of leaving all the leaves on the plant, to maximise it's survival chances).
    Then you come to the point when there's no more bud to harvest.
    What stage is the plant now in ?"

    This is known as the death stage hahaha.
    The fact that it is an auto means that it will not regrow leaves and stems as this is a vegetative process by cannabis

    Maybe the plant is still in a flowering stage and will put out new shoots for new flowers. All that is left on the plant after chopping will mature until it is ready. There is an expiry date on all Autos.

    "If this happens, than that's fantastic, this means this plant is capable of delivering a second
    harvest, perhaps a third... perhaps it will harvest perpetually."

    No it is delivering one harvest that you have chosen to stretch out instead of harvesting at once.


    "Or maybe, the plant is in a vegetative stage."

    Also incorrect as vegetative stage only last about two weeks in autos and they can't revert* (as stated many times)

    "Although the auto trait means the plant goes from seedling to flowering, it doesn't
    necessarily mean the plant is incapable of vegging."

    Yes it vegs early on and then flowers.* And the never ever ever ever ever goes through the vegatatove stage again.

    "Perhaps the Ruderalis genes simply disable vegging prior to flowering."

    Incorrect

    "If the plant doesn't re-flower, and survives the winter into year 2, then
    presumably this demonstates that the plant retains a vegetative capacity."

    If this were true then it would show that it's not as auto flowering plant as it can go back to veg according to light cycle.


    "The greater the plants root development, the heavier will be it's harvest.
    So we expect that the size of the year 1 harvest(s) to be obviously
    smaller than the year 2 harvest(s)."

    This would only be true if it undergoes a long enough reveg* (only in photos) to ensure bigger harvest than last time. Root mass is very important but root mass doesn't just equal bigger bud.


    I just think it's not possible at the moment. We have indica, sativa and Ruderalis. The first two are photo periods and can reveg after harvest but Ruderalis can't.

    You would need a different species of cannabis to make this happen. one that's not reliant on photoperiod for reveg but rather reverts to veg for a short amount of time after being chopped and then back to flower all whilst remaining in the same conditions.

    Sounds unlikely right ?



    Everything stated is my point of view and can be taken which ever way you like.
    It's a clever concept mate but highly implausible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobywho View Post
    Do you work in sales and marketing cryptolab your use off buzzwords and analogies makes me think you do lol...

    While I think any experimentation in the field is a good thing I still don't see the point man. A photo does everything that your asking in my opinion... If it's to help people with low mobility can you really say there is that much difference in work between auto and photo ��

    You clearly know your stuff mate but I'm just not sure it's going to be as revolutionary as you think but by all means don't stop what your doing any research is good research to me man ��

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
    Hi Scoobywho,

    Thank you for your complementary reply :-)

    Nope. I've never worked in sales.
    And i've never worked in marketing.
    And... salesmen... sell things.

    In contrast, I'm not selling anything.
    And i'm not trying to promote a product.
    In fact, i'm doing the opposite, i'm tying to give things away.
    I am giving away ideas and perspectives that, hopefully,
    will see the development of multiple strains of perpetually-flowering
    and/or long-lived auto strains.

    The primary beneficiaries of such strains would be:
    (1) the growers/breeders who originate these strains, (fame and wealth for them)
    (2) armies of medical patients
    (3) armies elderly people
    (4) armies of inexperienced growers / recreational users.
    (5) Naturally, I'll probably have one or two of these plants too!

    I'm advocating the development of a perpetually-flowering strain,
    Which is maximally low-maintenance, requiring the minimum of
    time, energy, attention and resources.

    It always struck me as an unfortunate paradox, that the people
    who most needed the medical benefits of MJ, were least able to
    grow it. They might have mobility problems, they might have
    permanently low energy levels, they might have cognitive impairments,
    they might have chronic pain.. etc.. etc..

    I do understand your argument:
    That with a photo-sensitive plant, you can make it flower indefinitely
    (e.g: using Low Stress Harvesting (LSH) and Low Stress Training (LST))
    and you can re-veg it indefinitely. And you are, of-course, correct.

    One problem with photo-sensitive strains is that they tend to be big.
    It's so convenient to have a nice dwarf auto plant that can be moved around
    and generally handled with ease. That's obviously an attractive detail for
    elderly and medical users.

    You might be tempted to reply, that with FIM and LST, you can keep even sativas
    down to 3 or 4 feet in height. That's true. But those 'short' plants still grow big,
    they just grow sideways, rather than straight up. They can grow so wide, that
    they become locked into one room, because they wont fit through the door.
    And they put on weight rapidly, moving one of those "short" plants can be struggle.
    It can be a two-man job. That's not great for our intended elderly and medical
    home growers.

    A second problem with photo strains, is that they require time, and pre-planning,
    and not a little technical know-how, to get the plants from seed, to seedling, to
    vegging, to flowering and then perhaps re-vegging.

    And all this takes time and patience. Imagine trying to sort this out if you
    had energy deficits or cognitive impairments. Photo period plants aren't
    low maintenance; they're high maintenance.

    However, i do take your point.
    If there were some truly dwarf indica or stativa strains, that only reached the minimal
    heights of auto strains, without bonsai-ing them in restrictively sized grow buckets.
    Then photo sensitive plants might offer the perpetual flowering & enhanced longevity
    properties that i'm seeking... but this scenario isn't very low maintenance, and so not
    very suitable for the elderly or those with medical issues.

    thanks for your reply

    best wishes

    cryptolab

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    i had 1 auto that went 85 days grew to 7.6 ft in my closet ..........guess what .... I KILLED THE FUKA !!! not a flower on it hardly duw duw never again

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    Tic toc ........



    Autos
    Redemption Grow Take 2

    Photo's
    Green lizard lick growing
    Exodus cheese exo-bition

    THERE IS A STRICT 10 PLANT MAXIMUM RULE ON THIS SITE!.YOU WILL BE BANNED FOR BREACHING THIS!

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