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Thread: Bizarre & Unknown Issues

  1. #1

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    Default Bizarre & Unknown Issues

    Hello guys,

    I am having some problems with my plants. I think this may be a MG or CA issue can anybody confirm just by looking? These problems started maybe 10/15 days ago (yellowing leaf, brown spots, twisting, curling), at which point I started checking the PH of the water. Was 8+ and I had high runoff also, So contrary to many sources I started to bring my water PH down to 6.5-7 before watering (I am using lemon juice).

    This doesn't seem to be helping too much as there still seems to be some strange growth. Should I buy some cal-mag and see if it helps? I am using tap water and I am living in a hardwater area so I thought that my water should have both of these minerals already which is why I was leaning towards a PH issue.

    Is there anything else anybody could recommend? Anybody used this soil before?

    Thank you

    //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Soil or hydro or coco: Soil

    Strain: Amnesia

    Photo or Auto: Autoflower

    Plant age: 32 Days

    Pot size: 3 Gallon

    Repotted? and when?: Transplanted early (maybe 5 days)

    Soil type: BioBizz All Mix / Perlite

    Nutes: Biobizz Bloom & Biobizz Grow (1/2 Ml ltr) have done twice last 2 waterings only

    Air temps (max min): 24oC/30oC

    Humidity: 40/60

    Lighting type : 250W HPS

    Light schedule: 24H

    ph level: 7~

    feed schedule and nutes : Only twice so far
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  3. #2

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    First of all don't mess with the PH in soil. The soil will buffer the PH all on its own.


    Second: Read this thread.

    http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...bio+bizz+curse
    “The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.”
    – Marcel Proust

    Outdoor Grow - BOMB seeds rock. LINK

    Viz doing first time Coco under CDM. LINK

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  5. #3

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    Hello
    Quote Originally Posted by Viz View Post
    First of all don't mess with the PH in soil. The soil will buffer the PH all on its own.
    I didn't want to touch PH at all, which is why I chose soil but I had these problems and read it could be PH which was high when I tested.

    So you think PH 8.5 runoff is okay? As the range I read should be 6-7 for soil or is this just nonsense and I should just leave it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viz View Post
    Second: Read this thread.
    Thanks for the pointer, I had reread this but doesn't say much apart from change my nutes.

    I know my water is hard and that thread is an awesome overview but I'm none the wiser about what to do, basically biobizz nutes are rekt and wont work?

    I'm using 1/2 the recommend dosage(from the 2018 chart) and my problems began before I started using them just the all-mix soil which has a lot of nutes already and autoflowers don't need much feeding apparently so I'm reluctant to add more. Or do I have a problem with nutrient deficiencies?

    Cheers

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    Don't mess with your soil PH simple as that. That fact that you have done is going to complicate and make a fix more complex than it needed to be.

    Second. If you are growing in soil you most likely don't need to feed at all for the first 4 or 5 weeks.

    Share with me how you were watering your plants, how often and so on. You say the issue started before you did stuff with the PH in the soil. What was the issue?

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    Cant offer any advice for you mate but hope things improve for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viz View Post
    Share with me how you were watering your plants, how often and so on.
    When the pot drys out, like a to the first knuckle I also pick up the pot to feel the weight. Its a fabric pot. Timewise about every 3-4 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viz View Post
    You say the issue started before you did stuff with the PH in the soil. What was the issue?
    Please see the images I have attached. The leaves are yellowing with some brown spots, curling also some new growth seems twisted or do these plants/new growth look okay?

    Thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Sea; 28-08-18 at 10:26 AM.

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    if your water is hard use a drop of dishsoap to a gallon of water to soften it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cannabisphilanthropist View Post
    if your water is hard use a drop of dishsoap to a gallon of water to soften it.
    Thanks for the tip, how does that remove mineral content from the water though and surely it would kill my microculture in the soil?

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    I am going to try and bring my plants back, I will keep a log here as to perhaps help future growers seeing that replies haven't offered any real advise on the condition of or a solution to my issues.

    After much reading from varied sources I have released a few things.

    BioBizz is not designed to be used in hardwater areas and such you will have to figure your own feeding secudule (this goes for most companies feeding guides - trail and error unfortunately) BioBizz 2018 Nutrient Schedule - biobizz.com/wp-content/themes/biobizz/download.php?p=4342

    Hardwater = More calcium carbonate which can lock out magnesium from the plant so you need to add supplement with some Cal-Mag or a magnesium supplement [Add some Epsom salt to waterings Range of (1tblspn/5Ltr-1tblspn/1Ltr)] Source - royalqueenseeds.com/blog-epsom-salts-a-natural-hack-to-grow-healthy-cannabis-plants-n837

    Below you will find a list of actions taken from a thread which I can recommend highly that will mitigate the effects of hard water on your plants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbatha View Post
    - Using bigger pots (less waterings = less limescale buildup)
    - Using citric-acid ph down (citric acid dissolves limescale / softens hardwater)
    - Using organic water wetter to aid water/nutrient uptake in hardwater soil
    - Using organic nutrients (no mineral salts added on top of the hardwater ec)
    - Using LESS perlite because particles from perlite bond with hardwater calcium particles in the soil
    - Using 1tsp p/ltr of epsoms salts once a week or 1/2 tsp with every feed to shift the cal/mag ratio back in favour of mag (it's hard to overdo the mag this way)
    Another good post in regards to BioBizz and MG/CAL

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody J View Post
    I actually think there are 2 groups of people who get the yellowing with BB nutrients.

    I use Bio Bizz in my soil grows and have not often had the early yellowing but I do use JI composts. WHen I have used light mixes and started feeding the BB earlier, I dont get any yellowing, when I rely on the nutes within the soil, I get yellowing.
    This is one group, those who rely on the soils nutes and dont feed early enough.
    Because BB has to be converted into a form of nutrition plants can take up, starting to feed a little later may mean there just isnt enough N in the soil to cover during the stretch.

    The other group is in the lockout camp.
    Those in hard water area's, where there is lots of calcium in the water will see early yellowing as the Mg gets locked out by too much Calcium.
    This may show as either yellowing or Mg def.
    Moreover PH in soil doesn't really matter in the case of organic growing, if you are using chemical nutes in soil PH does for sure become a consideration, however, PH is a hydroponic consideration mostly. However, as stated earlier I have been reducing my PH using lemon juice from over 8 to 7 and I may continue PHing at least 1 plant. BioBizz actually recommend that if PH is higher that 7.0/7.3 it should be brought down to 6.8/7.2 using Apple Vinegar or Citric Acid(lemon juice). Source - biobizz.com/support/#faq-4939

    When growing organically nutrients do not exactly feed the plant, you feed the microbial life living in the soil which in-turn then release nutrition for your plant.

    The microbial life in your soil can easily be killed off which would render organic nutrients useless as there is nothing to break down the nutrients to a usable form.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbatha View Post
    - Using non-organic soil
    - Using non-organic nutrients and/or additives of any kind
    - Using acid ph adjusters
    - Using chlorinated water
    - Failing to maintain a soil populated with microherd (occasional compost tea is the best route)
    The above is quote is from a different post in the same thread as above it is a list of things to which will damage your microbes.

    Which brings me onto the problem of my plants?

    There are multiple posts around the internet with similar problems to mine (like the above post from 'Woody').

    Straight up changing my nutrients just isn't rational and most people who encounter this problem wont do this so a solution is required. As stated before I am running under the assumption that I have a MG problem growweedeasy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/magnesium-info-marijuana.jpg probably caused by hardwater.

    I am assuming/sure that me changing the PH is not the cause of this issue as stated before I will continue PHing water for at least 1 plant, I am only bringing the water down to 7 from 8+ using lemon juice which shouldn't harm anything unlike say using nitric acid to reduce ph to 6.5 or lower. Biobizz state on their website that changing the PH wont harm your plants and it should be reduced if above 7.2.

    I am going to start by dissolving Epsom salts into waterings, in the middle of the range of my sources @ 1tblspn/2.5Ltr

    Further I am going to brew some compost tea by adding compost and Biobizz Grow to some dechlorinated water then siring frequently over a few days. There are many recipes online, I will post what I do.

    I will also continue with 1/2 dosages of the BioBizz Schedule as my plants are autoflowering which are known to be light feeders. However, I will still need to keep feeding the soil microbes which is what the nutrients are for this is also why there is a delay in results from feeding the plants to actually seeing visible results.

    Below is an apparent reply from BioBizz in regards to the Cal/Mag problems experienced by UK growers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BioBizz
    A Calcium Magnesium deficiency is impossible. There is no nutrient producer that would be so stupid not to make sure there is more than enough Cal/Mag available in any of the products. So basically, all products on the market have an actual surplus of both elements for sure. Some producers might offer it in separate bottles, but this is just a commercial scam:-)

    So what can cause this calcium magnesium deficiency? Because it is a fact for sure that people suffer from such a problem

    1: People are not using Bio-grow during flowering as we recommend ( about 10-20% of all cases )
    2: People are overdosing, causing a nitrogen blockage of the roots: a first sign of such a blockage: calcium def. Second sign: magnesium def.
    ( 60-70% of all cases )
    3: Problems with the water quality ( hard water /soft water, low or high pH and Ec levels): even with organics nutrients you can bump into problems. (10-30% of all cases ) The best way to tackle such a problem is for instance with some Epson salt.
    If people are really struggeling with crappy tab water in their area:
    advise RO water, rainwater or letting the water rest for 24-48 hours before use. Since the water quality is a big problem in many parts of the UK, we are sure you have many efficient tips and tricks how to tackle problems caused by crappy tab water. Us dutchies are not as experienced with crappy tab water as you in the UK.
    Last edited by Sea; 29-08-18 at 09:04 AM.

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    To update you guys of my progress.

    Yesterday I watered one of my Amnesia plants with PH7 water, added 1/5 tblspn per ltr. I adjusted my original dosage as the RoyalQueen site I referenced is for a foliar spray. Alongside the MGSO4 I also have given that plant biobizz Grow 1/2ml-ltr, Bloom 1ml-ltr & TopMax 1/2ml-ltr.

    More interesting is my attempt at a compost tea.

    Initially I was running under the assumption that I could just leave some compost, water and nutes in a tub and stir it occasionally and this would be okay.

    This is not correct and would have most likely ended up in me killing off my plant.

    After reading many resources I can conclude that compost tea needs to be aerated and string it occasionally isn't going to be acceptable.

    Put simply compost tea is a way of brewing cultures of microbes which will feed your plant.

    Naturally there is a plethora of different microbes which grow in range of different conditions. The microbes I need grow only in aerobic conditions, if the solution stops getting a constant flow of oxygen then the microbes in the water we want will die as anaerobic microbes take over.

    Compost tea has been around since before electricity and even any understanding of microscopic life but that doesn't mean these old timey solutions (stirring) are efficient or effective.

    I didn't realise this until the before I had already begun (maybe a couple of hours).

    What I did was whisked 10ltr of water and left it for 24hours to dechlorinate.

    I then added 2ltr of BioBizz All Mix.

    10ml Grow
    10ml Bloom
    10ml TopMax

    I began by whisking but moved to a hand/wand blender which was effective (probably killed off any delicate fungi, however).

    In fear of my mixture turning anaerobic it was only left for about 12 hours and after sieving I added the same amount of Epsom salts then watered my other Amnesia plant.

    In a few days I'm sure there will be some kind of results, if not from the mgso4 then the nutes or tea - I will post again in a few days with images of the plants.

    My final mixture:

    IMG_0841.resized.jpg

    Some good resources in regards to Compost Tea

    Brew Manual (Very in depth - Actual Scientific Data - Recommended) - ecologiesurleweb.free.fr/docs/Docs_agir/Lombricomposteur/Brew%20Manual%20compost%20tea.pdf
    Cannabis Tea Recipe - leafly.com/news/growing/compost-tea-recipe-and-benefits-for-cannabis
    Good Tea Recipe - delectationoftomatoes.wordpress.com/2012/07/24/actively-aerated-compost-tea/
    Steeped Tea (Stirred) - youtube.com/watch?v=GCbeALuAYsg

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    Overfeed and overwatering most likely . That soil looks drenched . Soil can be very hot(pre fertilized) too so no feeds . With hot soils . You barely even need to feed in veg tbh . With quality soils . Mg and cal def are extremely rare . But can happen when overwatered and too much fertilizer of npk blocking out certain micros and secondary nutrients . Like too much Potash blocks out Cal if aijt mistaken and so on and so forth .....

    So easy on the waterijg let pot get light but not crispy dry . And dont fertilize . If it needs . Fertilize with small doses 1/4 more often then one strong feed

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    Looks like MG deficiency or Lockout to me. I think the Epsom salts were a good choice. I have no experience with this brand of soil or nutes.

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    It's been nearly 3 weeks since I posted.

    Thanks for the replies guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trex View Post
    Overfeed and overwatering most likely . That soil looks drenched . Soil can be very hot(pre fertilized) too so no feeds . With hot soils . You barely even need to feed in veg tbh . With quality soils . Mg and cal def are extremely rare . But can happen when overwatered and too much fertilizer of npk blocking out certain micros and secondary nutrients . Like too much Potash blocks out Cal if aijt mistaken and so on and so forth .....
    So easy on the waterijg let pot get light but not crispy dry . And dont fertilize . If it needs . Fertilize with small doses 1/4 more often then one strong feed
    I do/have been saturating the soil you are correct.

    I use about 2/2.5LTR of water per pot which i guess is too much.

    Perhaps what is happening as I am using the fabric pots is the outside/edges is/are drying out a considerable amount more than the center. I say this because the edges of the pots do get literally crispy dry and the center is dry/moist. Moreover, the soil also kind of clumps together which I doubt is helping this very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by CityDweller View Post
    Looks like MG deficiency or Lockout to me. I think the Epsom salts were a good choice. I have no experience with this brand of soil or nutes.
    I've been loading up on Epsom salts which worked a bit (dosages above) but sadly my plants are getting more yellow.

    After my strange tea concoction I flushed the plant I gave it to as it was showing signs of clawing.

    You can see in the updated pictures that the plants are getting progressively more yellow. However, I am starting week 8 of 10/11 in 2 days so perhaps this isn't awful as the bud sites are considerably more green than the rest of the plant.

    Also since the last post the bud sites have gotten frosty with lots of resin production which I am happy about.

    Also there is a fantastic strong smell.

    In my eyes this is going okay so far especially compared to my last attempt at grow a couple of years ago which was about a 1/4 of the bud I already have.

    Of course, the yellowing isn't awesome. I will update in a week or so.

    Thanks
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