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Thread: Lighting Tech

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentina View Post
    Gardro, I would love to see a Talk review on the Budmaster lamps. There are people here who know heck of a lot more than I do, like about wavelengths and Kelvins and colour temperatures and watts and such. And some 101 level info on the rise and fall of the blurple would be really good.

    The Budmasters are a bit pricey to buy, but there's been no need for maintenance, no change of anything, no broken anything. It just works.

    My one single lamp has been the rock of my grows. I know that blurple is going out of fashion, however, I have had it about 3 years now, with the past year or so being in constant use.

    It has never missed a beat.

    The lamp keeps my plants squat, which is great given my limited space. I am interested in getting a "G.O.D." lamp from them at some point, all for the blurple LEDs and solid reliability.
    I know they work and they work well, a friend on a different forum lightaddict used them . They do have a life expectancy tho val , after around two years of use the par readings drastically drop. But the continues to work and is still bright as hell. I'm sure they use the osram ssl80 diodes and say you can't find them in other lamps which is a lie . This is my first time using led lights to grow in around 20years of growing and I'm impressed with my lights from invisible sun and was a complete hps addict. I've watched many a led grow using older tech and never been impressed and neither have the users , reluctantly admitted this after switching back to hps or cdm lights


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    Quote Originally Posted by gardro View Post
    Oh this was the CV drivers ( the 48b ). That might explain.

    Imo its not the correct driver for the board




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    I used that driver and couldn't get over 200w so you've done very well indeed




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    Quote Originally Posted by gardro View Post
    I used that driver and couldn't get over 200w so you've done very well indeed




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    Gonna keep it plugged in to the meter for a few hours as it has risen since I did the alteration,it started at 207w and went up to 227w over the space of about an hour.
    It's nice to be nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gardro View Post
    I can look into a model for you Valentina, my pleasure. Which GOD model are you interested in?
    Hi Gardro. I was just looking at the G.O.D. 2 or 4, I am not in a rush personally though. It's just that mine (an XG, now discontinued) keeps my plants short but also translates into absolute unpredictability when the plant stretches, compared against others data from HPS.


    Quote Originally Posted by British green View Post
    I know they work and they work well, a friend on a different forum lightaddict used them . They do have a life expectancy tho val , after around two years of use the par readings drastically drop. But the continues to work and is still bright as hell. I'm sure they use the osram ssl80 diodes and say you can't find them in other lamps which is a lie . This is my first time using led lights to grow in around 20years of growing and I'm impressed with my lights from invisible sun and was a complete hps addict. I've watched many a led grow using older tech and never been impressed and neither have the users , reluctantly admitted this after switching back to hps or cdm lights
    Thanks for the heads up, British Green, and your insight as well as experience with HPS/CDM. Considering heat, power, reliability etc I am sticking with LED, most likely with the same brand. For now the lamp is still good and if the PAR readings drop this year, great, I can use that for veg and get the G.O.D. for Bloom.
    Last edited by Valentina; 18-01-19 at 10:58 PM.
    Fight for your health.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentina View Post
    Hi Gardro. I was just looking at the G.O.D. 2 or 4, I am not in a rush personally though. It's just that mine (an XG, now discontinued) keeps my plants short but also translates into absolute unpredictability when the plant stretches, compared against others data from HPS.




    Thanks for the heads up, British Green, and your insight as well as experience with HPS/CDM. Considering heat, power, reliability etc I am sticking with LED, most likely with the same brand. For now the lamp is still good and if the PAR readings drop this year, great, I can use that for veg and get the G.O.D. for Bloom.
    Hi Valentina

    Can I ask if you've considered the Cropmaster series as from what I gather the GODs are being discontinued but still carry a price tag.

    Budmaster is now Cropmaster

    Those GOD lights are invariably high bay lights and many have said you have to hang them high.






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    Hey Gardro,

    So at some point I’m thinking about upgrading my main flower room lights, and the HLG ISH265pro kits have my attention.

    Currently I run 2x 600w on digital ballasts in magnum/dominator xxxl hoods.
    I grow in a room with a scrog net at 1x2m with a RDWC underneath.
    I’m quite happy pulling 1gpw with this rig. But I want 1500g minimum.


    I’m thinking as a replacement 2x ISH265 2700k and 2x3000k so I can run the 3000k to finish the veg and fill the net then flick the 2700k on as well for the flower for a big finish.

    when I read all the paperwork, 2.8umols/w for the LED, 1.3umols/w on the HPS.
    Does this mean with the 4 265’s putting out about 1000w of light can I expect 2000g of bud? As the LED is roughly twice as efficient?

    Help!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomKing View Post
    Hey Gardro,

    So at some point I’m thinking about upgrading my main flower room lights, and the HLG ISH265pro kits have my attention.

    Currently I run 2x 600w on digital ballasts in magnum/dominator xxxl hoods.
    I grow in a room with a scrog net at 1x2m with a RDWC underneath.
    I’m quite happy pulling 1gpw with this rig. But I want 1500g minimum.


    I’m thinking as a replacement 2x ISH265 2700k and 2x3000k so I can run the 3000k to finish the veg and fill the net then flick the 2700k on as well for the flower for a big finish.

    when I read all the paperwork, 2.8umols/w for the LED, 1.3umols/w on the HPS.
    Does this mean with the 4 265’s putting out about 1000w of light can I expect 2000g of bud? As the LED is roughly twice as efficient?

    Help!
    Hi mate

    Sounds like you're well researched and ready to go

    Those efficacy numbers are right in theory so yes you can expect much more from a single watt of power. 1 gpw is no longer a target put it that way.

    In practice the numbers are not going to be as definitive but you will still be able to expect, probably 1.5gpw in an rdwc set up.

    Id say you'd be knocking on the door of 1.5-1.6 kilos

    Those dominator hoods are fantastic at directing the hps light down onto the canopy, leds do this naturally of course.

    The temperatures youve mentioned will work great. The 2700K is more flower specific as youve identified. The 3000K is warm white so good for seed to harvest. You could get some 3500K, also warm white, in there that would be better at veg and help flowering a bit more

    2700K + 3000K is a little red heavy

    2700K + 3500K is closer to having 3000K when combined.

    The colour always overlooked is green, which is more present in 3500K plus

    The green pentetrates far better than red or blue and is the reason hps has been so successful ( and why blurple leds have lacked something !)

    Im just harvesting now on buds grown under 3500K start to finish and i use 2 lots of the 250 kits






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    Nice, I will take your advice on the 3500k panels and the green spectrum and thank for such a speedy response.

    Gonna rebuild the RDWC system first so better coverage with plants, but then I’m thinking light upgrade.

    Crazy tempted to do a side by side with a 600w HPS and 2x265’s... umm might be able to get the money past our lass if I do it half at a time! Hahaha

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    Gardro mate you got any thoughts on UV and far red supplemental lighting? I'm looking at sorting the lights out in my PC case before my next grow - I'm going to stick with the 6 Q-series strips at the top, albeit with a driver upgrade (probably just to an LPF-40, since it's still a very small space I'm working in), and add in a pair of vertically mounted strips on each end of the case, one in each corner. Using only two strips each side will give me space for airflow fans in between them, and it will also give me space to add in some single diodes if I choose to. The sketch below should help the layout at least make sense.

    The strips I've got are a mix of 3000K and 4000K and the extra few I buy I'll maybe go 3500K because why not.

    I'm thinking of using my existing LPF-25D-36 driver to power the four corner strips along with two sets of 5 1W single colour diodes (so two parallel strings each with 2 strips and 5 singles) mostly just because I already have the unit. I already have a suitable heatsink I can cut in half and use for the 2 sets of 5 singles as well.

    This would give me something in the region of 35W from the strips lights above, 14W from the strip lights at the corners, and 6W of supplemental colours.

    If I do do that I need to choose the supplemental diodes. I'm thinking 1*380, 2*660 and 2*730 for each side and I'm actually looking at EPILED because I can get them on star PCBs dirt cheap, although I could use Cree X-lamps for better efficiency. Particularly the UV diodes, I've found the EPILED ones for £2 each which is way less than any other major manufacturers I can find. Might mean they're awful of course...

    Think the extra spectrum will add any value mate? A lot of the biology when it comes to photosynthesis and light spectra is way over my head sadly! Cheers in advance for any thoughts.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by thelastrebel View Post
    Gardro mate you got any thoughts on UV and far red supplemental lighting? I'm looking at sorting the lights out in my PC case before my next grow - I'm going to stick with the 6 Q-series strips at the top, albeit with a driver upgrade (probably just to an LPF-40, since it's still a very small space I'm working in), and add in a pair of vertically mounted strips on each end of the case, one in each corner. Using only two strips each side will give me space for airflow fans in between them, and it will also give me space to add in some single diodes if I choose to. The sketch below should help the layout at least make sense.

    The strips I've got are a mix of 3000K and 4000K and the extra few I buy I'll maybe go 3500K because why not.

    I'm thinking of using my existing LPF-25D-36 driver to power the four corner strips along with two sets of 5 1W single colour diodes (so two parallel strings each with 2 strips and 5 singles) mostly just because I already have the unit. I already have a suitable heatsink I can cut in half and use for the 2 sets of 5 singles as well.

    This would give me something in the region of 35W from the strips lights above, 14W from the strip lights at the corners, and 6W of supplemental colours.

    If I do do that I need to choose the supplemental diodes. I'm thinking 1*380, 2*660 and 2*730 for each side and I'm actually looking at EPILED because I can get them on star PCBs dirt cheap, although I could use Cree X-lamps for better efficiency. Particularly the UV diodes, I've found the EPILED ones for £2 each which is way less than any other major manufacturers I can find. Might mean they're awful of course...

    Think the extra spectrum will add any value mate? A lot of the biology when it comes to photosynthesis and light spectra is way over my head sadly! Cheers in advance for any thoughts.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi mate, red 630nm, deep red 660nm and far red 730nm lighting is definitely a positive when it comes to flowering. Have a read of the Emerson Effect if you want some wider knowledge.

    I steer clear of UVa and UVb to be honest. The gains are marginal vs the risk to humans.

    Got to watch the cheaper Chinese leds which can emit UV due to poor manufacturing






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    Quote Originally Posted by gardro View Post
    Hi mate, red 630nm, deep red 660nm and far red 730nm lighting is definitely a positive when it comes to flowering. Have a read of the Emerson Effect if you want some wider knowledge.

    I steer clear of UVa and UVb to be honest. The gains are marginal vs the risk to humans.

    Got to watch the cheaper Chinese leds which can emit UV due to poor manufacturing






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    You know I hadn't really thought of the health risks from UV diodes mate but I suppose, with it being a bedroom project I probably can't be too careful. Yeah and I guess that probably applies to cheap diodes too. Oh well, when you're only buying 10 I guess you can afford to splash out! You reckon boosting the 630 is worthwhile as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thelastrebel View Post
    You know I hadn't really thought of the health risks from UV diodes mate but I suppose, with it being a bedroom project I probably can't be too careful. Yeah and I guess that probably applies to cheap diodes too. Oh well, when you're only buying 10 I guess you can afford to splash out! You reckon boosting the 630 is worthwhile as well?
    Max benefit comes with the golden ratios between the reds. 630 and 660 is fairly well present in the warm white cobs but if supplementing one, Emerson says you get benefit by maintaining the golden ratios




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    didn't wanna start a new topic gardro, would be interested to hear your thoughts on the 10k uv finishing bulbs
    i honestly wouldn't grow without mine after trying it on my last 3 grows but that's not a technical/scientific answer

    any chance of a thread/topic about em including spectrum/par/lumens/etc??




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    Quote Originally Posted by MonsterEnergy View Post
    didn't wanna start a new topic gardro, would be interested to hear your thoughts on the 10k uv finishing bulbs
    i honestly wouldn't grow without mine after trying it on my last 3 grows but that's not a technical/scientific answer

    any chance of a thread/topic about em including spectrum/par/lumens/etc??
    I've got some research on pre harvest lighting so let me have a good read up and then let me come back to you

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    Quote Originally Posted by gardro View Post
    I've got some research on pre harvest lighting so let me have a good read up and then let me come back to you
    cheers mate, can't ask for anymore than that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentina View Post
    I was looking at the GOD2 or GOD4
    Hi Valentina

    Budmaster G.O.D. Series
    Budmaster released their led series based on the Osram Delux Gold (G.O.D.) SSL80 led emitters back in 2015 and was sold as their premium line until it was discontinued in 2018 when Budmaster began trading as Cropmaster.
    The Osram leds were a premium horticultural specific led capable of continual use for 100,000 hours with output losses of only 1% per year. This was a significant quality increase from the Lumiled Leds used in the entry XG range.

    THE GOD -2
    A popular home grower’s choice


    LIGHTING METRICS
    Budmaster no longer list the unit specifications but I have managed to gain some data
    The important information is the efficacy at 1.89umol per joule. Some of the latest Samsung based lighting is achieving upto 2.7umol per joule as a comparison

    Heres is an informative video completed by Migro (potentially biased of course), bearing in mind this is a GOD-6 ( 3 x GOD-2). You can get a good appreciation for the intensity and spread.
    https://youtu.be/pEtgLfW8Snc

    SPECTRUM

    Contains the critical blue and red wavelengths, very much a blurple light. Mid spectrum is lacking which may not assist with the lights vegetative penetration.

    COST
    The GOD -2 is available circa £500. This is fairly premium price point for the light performance

    COOLING

    The units do require active cooling and include a 33CFM 2500rpm cooling fan

    WATERPROOF
    Very impressive IP68 rating and are fully UL/ROHS and CE approved

    Overall
    In my opinion this light is a very capable blurple generation light. The efficacy of 1.83 umol per joule (increasing in the 2018 facelifted model to 1.89) is beyond the likes of Mars hydro and Viparspectra of a similar vintage.
    The unit if beautifully made and the Osram leds are very robust ( even more so in 2018 model)
    Bearing in mind the price however, the umol per joule per £ is low compared to the likes of Invisible Sun and even Migro, who are a premium priced brand.
    A few years back, this light would have been a solid choice but tech has moved on and the light is already at the end of its life cycle. Budmaster themselves have dropped the range in replacement of their Pro Cropmasters which use white led technology

    Hope that gives some food for thought.

    Regards
    Gardro (aka Gardo)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gardro View Post
    Hi Valentina

    ...
    Budmaster no longer list the unit specifications but I have managed to gain some data
    The important information is the efficacy at 1.89umol per joule. Some of the latest Samsung based lighting is achieving upto 2.7umol per joule as a comparison
    ...
    In my opinion this light is a very capable blurple generation light. The efficacy of 1.83 umol per joule (increasing in the 2018 facelifted model to 1.89) is beyond the likes of Mars hydro and Viparspectra of a similar vintage.
    The unit if beautifully made and the Osram leds are very robust ( even more so in 2018 model)
    Bearing in mind the price however, the umol per joule per £ is low compared to the likes of Invisible Sun and even Migro, who are a premium priced brand.
    A few years back, this light would have been a solid choice but tech has moved on and the light is already at the end of its life cycle. Budmaster themselves have dropped the range in replacement of their Pro Cropmasters which use white led technology

    Hope that gives some food for thought.

    Regards
    Gardro (aka Gardo)
    Hi Gardro,

    WOW, thank you so much for taking the time to look at the lamps, the data analysis, and for posting! My heart sinks a little seeing that the blurple is being phased out. I have a soft spot for them because they keep the plants compact, and for what little headroom I have, every little helps. But you are right, in terms of price point vs output, the GOD lamps are clearly not in the lead. Even with a big pinch of salt, the Migro vs GOD video is pretty self explanatory.

    None the less I am not sure if I am persuaded away from the brand though, given just how very beautifully and robustly build they are. I have had no problem with my little XG, I just love that little lamp. No fuss, no maintenance, it just works, and very well too so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentina View Post
    Hi Gardro,

    WOW, thank you so much for taking the time to look at the lamps, the data analysis, and for posting! My heart sinks a little seeing that the blurple is being phased out. I have a soft spot for them because they keep the plants compact, and for what little headroom I have, every little helps. But you are right, in terms of price point vs output, the GOD lamps are clearly not in the lead. Even with a big pinch of salt, the Migro vs GOD video is pretty self explanatory.

    None the less I am not sure if I am persuaded away from the brand though, given just how very beautifully and robustly build they are. I have had no problem with my little XG, I just love that little lamp. No fuss, no maintenance, it just works, and very well too so far.
    No worries. They are certainly some of the best blurple lights out there still. If you get chance, look at the Cropmasters as they are 2+ umol per joule. The price isnt competitive imho.

    Spectrum is overrated. Bright PAR is all thats necessary so youre heart may need to hold out for the future. White leds give off more light per watt right now but Osram's and Samsung's latest blue and red diodes are punching well above their weight, more so than white






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    Quote Originally Posted by gardro View Post
    No worries. They are certainly some of the best blurple lights out there still. If you get chance, look at the Cropmasters as they are 2+ umol per joule. The price isnt competitive imho.

    Spectrum is overrated. Bright PAR is all thats necessary so youre heart may need to hold out for the future. White leds give off more light per watt right now but Osram's and Samsung's latest blue and red diodes are punching well above their weight, more so than white
    Thanks, Gardro. I agree, I'll hold out for a bit still.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonsterEnergy View Post
    didn't wanna start a new topic gardro, would be interested to hear your thoughts on the 10k uv finishing bulbs
    i honestly wouldn't grow without mine after trying it on my last 3 grows but that's not a technical/scientific answer

    any chance of a thread/topic about em including spectrum/par/lumens/etc??
    Hi Monster

    Is there a specific bulb to look at? Im foreign to this area but heres one spectrum plot ive come across while searching

    600w Sunmaster 10K


    The premise here is that the high energy (blue) PAR and UVA/B/C will drive flavinoid, terpenes and cannbinoids.

    Looking at the spectrum of the Sunmaster here, i must say the ratios are far too heavily biassed in the high energy range ( the blues and beyond ). There is relatively little PAR so the time you are using the finishing bulb, the yield is taking a hit. The reason is that energy is diverted from growth during this time. The finishing light will drive secondary metabolism only ( i.e. not growth ).
    There is no evidence that UV is more effective than deep blue either. Im assuming everyone lights out before they enter the groom with these lights too.

    A small amount of UV/blue light is all that is required so it would be far more effective to use a source of blue in addition to the HPS spectrum. I would say a dual spectrum HPS will be as/more effective as the finishing lamp

    I also came across 6K bulbs which may have a better PAR to NON PAR ratio

    This is a fascninating subject and from what i can see, the amount of supplemental light required ot drive looks and falvours is rougly 5-10% of the power required to flower with. Certainly wont need a 600W light for example

  40. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to gardro For This Useful Post:

    CuriousaurusRex (04-03-19), hotshot (03-03-19), JB (04-03-19), Valentina (05-03-19)

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