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Thread: Boy, 14, stabbed to death in Waltham Forest, north-east London

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    I just don't trust the establishment to do it fairly. Who do we put in charge of the limits of this? Who can be stopped and searched and why? Where do you draw the line. Law is never just as black an white as that.

    Do you think, if a rich white kid, from a good area of London, was found with a knife, he would held to the same rules as the guy from Peckham? I don't see this heading in a good direction at all. Its just the start of totalitarianism.

    I agree something has to be done about it, but stop and search will take away the rights of the average person. And we have already have had plenty of those removed over the last twenty years. Its a slippery slope this one which we have to tread carefully with, giving the police powers like this just never feels right to me lol. To be able to stop a person when they have done nothing wrong and be able to just search them.... nah man lol. Especially as I would have weed in my pocket lol.
    So, rather than saying what shouldn't be done, what should we do to tackle the problem of people being murdered with knifes in London?

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    You do realise that walking around with a bag of weed is also illegal? Or have you, in your own mind, legalised it?
    Lmao! It is illegal but im doing nothing wrong by carrying it

    So though i am doing nothing wrong, if the police can randomly stop and search me, I'm fucked just for having a couple of spliffs on me doing no harm to any one.

    If the drug laws were to change, and people couldn't be prosecuted for possession of drugs ( which is a health issue not a criminal issue) then i would be more inclined for stop and search. As, the only thing they would find that they could prosecute you for is an offensive weapon, not a bag of weed.



    'You're not to blame, you're just a human, a victim of the insane'
    John Lennon

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  5. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    Lmao! It is illegal but im doing nothing wrong by carrying it
    It is illegal therefore you are doing something wrong!

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    So, rather than saying what shouldn't be done, what should we do to tackle the problem of people being murdered with knifes in London?
    fuck knows lol! Education of the youth is important, having a good family unit is too. Its a problem with society as a whole, the youth are being left behind and forgotten about amongst all the other problems we are having right now. It happened in amercia during the 1980s with the crack epidemic, but with guns, to much poverty, too much crime, people feel the need to protect themselves, and carry a knife, which then leads them more inclined to use it.

    Im not an advocate for carrying knives, and i think something has to be done to fix it, but we have to be careful about just handing our rights away like that

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    It is illegal therefore you are doing something wrong!
    No I'm not mate! I don't know who you can say that. In the mind of the law, im not even doing anything wrong! For there to be a crime, there has to be a victim! There is no victim in possessing weed, and we are doing nothing wrong by smoking it. The law is fucked and it is illegal yes, but it is not wrong on a moral level. Illegal and immoral are different man.

    I gtg shopping, lol. Catch you in a bit talkers.

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  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    I'm with I Spy on this. We've tried the softly softly approach - it does not work!

    Stop & search & a minimum 5 year sentence for the possession of a knife.
    I'm with I spy and mc . I regularly got stopped as a young white boy walking through a Asian and black area and searched. I was never doing anything wrong or carrying anything I shouldn't. So it didn't bother me. Don't break the laws and ya have nothing to worry about. I've been stabbed in the back next to my spine ended up bleeding into my lungs drowning in my own blood. There's no reason why anyone should be carrying a knife on or streets. Full stop


    in a green and pleasant land

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  13. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    fuck knows lol! Education of the youth is important, having a good family unit is too. Its a problem with society as a whole, the youth are being left behind and forgotten about amongst all the other problems we are having right now. It happened in amercia during the 1980s with the crack epidemic, but with guns, to much poverty, too much crime, people feel the need to protect themselves, and carry a knife, which then leads them more inclined to use it.

    Im not an advocate for carrying knives, and i think something has to be done to fix it, but we have to be careful about just handing our rights away like that
    This is the problem with today's society. They complain bitterly but have no answers...

    A good family unit? This has been eroded for years. You can no longer discipline a child & a child has 'rights' - adults are now scared of children.

    The youth are being left behind & forgotten about... no they are not! I grew up in the 70's & 80's things were a lot 'worse' then but people weren't stabbing each other

    America tackled their problem in a way that you say in unacceptable for the UK

    Carrying a knife is an imported culture, we never used to do it.... but we are gagged on talking about the cultures we are importing into the UK

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  15. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    No I'm not mate! I don't know who you can say that. In the mind of the law, im not even doing anything wrong! For there to be a crime, there has to be a victim! There is no victim in possessing weed, and we are doing nothing wrong by smoking it. The law is fucked and it is illegal yes, but it is not wrong on a moral level. Illegal and immoral are different man.

    I gtg shopping, lol. Catch you in a bit talkers.
    LOL - you are trying to set up a straw man argument... I ain't going there!

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    Read a book called crack house . The epidemic that happened in America hit our streets of London manchester Liverpool etc etc years ago. One of the major problems we have is morons breeding morons and I think castration is the only answer. Years and years of people not giving a shit what there kids do so as parents why do they care what their kids do as no one cared for them. I was brought up to better myself and do better than my parents ( hard to live up to there standards) and bring my kids up to do better than myself. There's no excuse to carry a knife on our streets.


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    I've been stopped and searched a few times I figure police just do what they want anyway lol. Maybe naive of me to not contest it but I had nothing bad on me and was in my younger yob days. I'm sure they were always pissed off when they only found an empty grinder so was satisfying at the same time



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  21. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    LOL - you are trying to set up a straw man argument... I ain't going there!
    That isn't a straw man mate, the but about the crack epidemic in america can be called a straw man but not this one

    Possessing weed, should not be a crime, we can all agree there right?

    With random stop and search, the police can pull YOU aside at any time for no reason, and search you. Maybe on a trip back from the grow shop? Maybe after a session with friends? Maybe walking the dog with a smoke, when ever!

    Now, most of us here are growers, so if we were randomly searched, and the police found weed, or anything to do with growing, that would give them the right to search YOUR home. and they will find weed there. Then you get prosecuted. You did nothing wrong in the first place to get searched, the police just thought it was your turn.

    Right now, we can tell the police to pretty much fuck off! why you want to search me, ive done nothing wrong, I WILL NOT GIVE THAT RIGHT AWAY!! lol

    Instead of searching random people and violating our rights, why not actually prosecute the people who commit knife crime properly? Stronger sentencing and better education towards the consequences of carrying a knife would be the first path to take.

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  23. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    That isn't a straw man mate, the but about the crack epidemic in america can be called a straw man but not this one

    Possessing weed, should not be a crime, we can all agree there right?

    With random stop and search, the police can pull YOU aside at any time for no reason, and search you. Maybe on a trip back from the grow shop? Maybe after a session with friends? Maybe walking the dog with a smoke, when ever!

    Now, most of us here are growers, so if we were randomly searched, and the police found weed, or anything to do with growing, that would give them the right to search YOUR home. and they will find weed there. Then you get prosecuted. You did nothing wrong in the first place to get searched, the police just thought it was your turn.

    Right now, we can tell the police to pretty much fuck off! why you want to search me, ive done nothing wrong, I WILL NOT GIVE THAT RIGHT AWAY!! lol

    Instead of searching random people and violating our rights, why not actually prosecute the people who commit knife crime properly? Stronger sentencing and better education towards the consequences of carrying a knife would be the first path to take.
    You are deviating from the thread subject to make a case that you can defend - a straw man argument.

    So are you saying that we should just let the youngsters carry their knives and instead look at harsher sentences?

    Whilst you say S60 is search with no reason, these figures are collated & police are not going to spend a whole shift searching people who don't fit a profile - & since we know it is coloured male youths in London causing these issues then I wouldn't expect many white middle aged women in the Midlands to be targeted... The biggest issue is people that have their own agenda to prevent stop & search, yours is the fear of being caught with weed on you - despite knowing it is illegal. Coming back from the grow shop with supplies will not give reason to a house search as no law has been broken, however carrying cannabis would give grounds to a house search. Don't carry weed if you are worried about being searched, it's as simple as that.

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    Macks, we might have galactically different ideas on some issues, but you get me on this.

    "Profiling" might be illegal, but I don't for a moment believe that it is not applied. I am nothing to look at, just another face in the crowd. But there is a particular jacket that every time I wear it, at a certain perfectly legal and well lit and safe and heavily guarded location in the UK, some individual of authority would give me grief, treat me like a dangerous criminal. I don't even litter! Of course they find nothing, there is nothing for them to find! Doesn't stop them from associating whatever it is about me and that jacket and whatever experiences that have had though.

    Life isn't fair, we all know that. But that level of unfairness is getting ridiculous now.

    Not being funny here, all this talk about black on black or white on white etc. Whatever the heck happened to the yellows? Are they even on the radar? Why do they so rarely come up in these stats? Some might be assets to society, but lets be honest not all of them are saints. In other words, just like every other nationalities, races out there: Some people are good, some are bad, one can never tell just based on skin colour.

    I just think that this "Stop and Search" thing is not vaguely as simple as they make it out to be.

    I hope I am way off target on this, but disenfranchised youth will at some point look for "hope" and a new generation of some "new idea". This kind of movement happened in Europe, also in the Far East, and only mere decades ago. History will more than likely repeat itself if people don't or won't catch a whiff of it coming this way. All the troubles we have now will seem trivial compared to that.

    No, I am not para from unripe herb.

    As for knives? Seriously, friends of mine got threatened in a park during the day by thugs with a cordless drill. People that have a mind to hurt and plunder others will always have ways to achieve their goals. It's the boring ones that try to buy a can of energy drink or a kitchen knife that gets carded and or logged.

    At this rate if some cis-straight bloke who for whatever reason decides to take up knitting could well get cuffed and taken to the cop shop for a chat if he was caught with "sharp implements" and "rope"!

    Sorry to have started a political thing.
    Fight for your health.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    You are deviating from the thread subject to make a case that you can defend - a straw man argument.

    So are you saying that we should just let the youngsters carry their knives and instead look at harsher sentences?

    Whilst you say S60 is search with no reason, these figures are collated & police are not going to spend a whole shift searching people who don't fit a profile - & since we know it is coloured male youths in London causing these issues then I wouldn't expect many white middle aged women in the Midlands to be targeted... The biggest issue is people that have their own agenda to prevent stop & search, yours is the fear of being caught with weed on you - despite knowing it is illegal. Coming back from the grow shop with supplies will not give reason to a house search as no law has been broken, however carrying cannabis would give grounds to a house search. Don't carry weed if you are worried about being searched, it's as simple as that.
    But, I should be allowed to carry weed, without the risk of consequences. The police have no right to search me, unless the suspect I am the perpetrator of a crime as far as I'm concerned.

    As I said, if the drug laws were to change, and being in possession of weed was no longer a crime then I'd be more inclined to stop and search. But as it stands, innocent people law abiding people, who mean no harm to anyone, stand a risk of getting a criminal record, losing their jobs and Lively hood just because they were walking down the road and the police decided to search them.

    Yes there is a knife epidemic in London, and stop and search would be a good deterrent. But you can bet there would be a shit load more drug prosecutions because of it.

    Whilst we have these bullshit laws, I have no trust for the police to have such powers. Other than the fact I grow and smoke weed, I am a good law abiding citizen mate, respectful and courteous, I don't even smoke around other people to avoid offending them.

    I keep the smoking on a down low, and don't smoke in the street or anything like that. I think it would be unfair, for me, to be pulled aside and searched in the street for no reason, for them then to find a spliff I might be carrying, and use that as an excuse to ruin my life, when I am doing no harm to any one. And giving the police stop and search powers like means they can do that, when ever they like, without a good reason. I'm not up for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    But, I should be allowed to carry weed, without the risk of consequences.
    That is as far as I read before I started laughing!

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    These things can get worse too,

    " the stop and search policy has been a massive success in reducing crime, we have decided the extent the policy under immigration law, you must carry I'd at all times, or risk prosecution . This will reduce the crime cause by illegal immigrants "

    Show me your papers lol.

    Seriously though, this is a slippery slope logical fallacy yes, but it has happened before, and it can happen again, we have to be careful not to hand our rights over over the false pretence of safety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    That is as far as I read before I started laughing!
    Do you disagree with that? Really?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    Do you disagree with that? Really?
    Not like I'm trying to say I should be excused from the rules, I mean there shouldn't be a rule making weed illegal in the first place. We are not criminals for being smokers, regardless of if there is a bullshit law saying we are.

    Once they stop treating innocent stoners like criminals, my opinion may change, until then fuck the police lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    Do you disagree with that? Really?
    I am aware that I do not make the rules in this country & I am aware that breaking rules comes with consequences.

    Carrying cannabis is illegal & until that rule is changed I would expect consequences if I was caught carrying cannabis... in the same way I would expect consequences for carrying weapons or acid.

    We can't pick & choose the laws we obey.

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