Cannabis and schizophrenia

[Diply]

Radio 4's A life scientific today talked to Robin Murray about his understanding of schizophrenia, and also cannabis and its relationship to mental health.
LINK
It's an interesting listen. I have a few qualms/questions with some of his assertions, but he is adding to the UK scientific communitys consensus about the risks of high THC cannabis to mental health.

[MissJane]

Thanks i'll give it a listen. Its a subject that interests me. Before I was a stay at home mum I worked as a carer in a secure mental hospital. Don't think I could do it again though and go home with a clean conscience, many of the people locked up really could have been cared for in the community...being locked up I would say damages your mental health to some extent so its a counterproductive solution for many.

Also there was a big mix, some people were locked up because they were a danger to themselves or because they had mild learning disabilties and could be taken advantage of in the community. And well the worst fella in there was a child killer with learning dis and asbergers and he was locked up amongst vulnerable adults. Now these people were supposed to be supervised by staff at all times but human error occurs all the time. In the 3 years I worked there a lovely young lad was raped by another lad around the same age while staff had a sneaky kip on the night shift. Now this lad who was raped was only there because his family had him sectioned after some violent episodes in the home so he was sectioned for evaluation, he was vulnerable and the system failed him, very sad.

Interested to hear if there is a provable link between cannabis and mental health but I suspect its really not that simple.

[Smokin' The Herb]

Found this broadcast really informative, thank you.

Peace.

[GrassHopper]

Excellent broadcast. I'll need to listen to again tomorrow though, I too baked now n keep drifting off trying to digest it all.

[smokin-talkin]

For some reason this link isnt working?

[nuube]

Thanks i'll give it a listen. Its a subject that interests me. Before I was a stay at home mum I worked as a carer in a secure mental hospital. Don't think I could do it again though and go home with a clean conscience, many of the people locked up really could have been cared for in the community...being locked up I would say damages your mental health to some extent so its a counterproductive solution for many.

Also there was a big mix, some people were locked up because they were a danger to themselves or because they had mild learning disabilties and could be taken advantage of in the community. And well the worst fella in there was a child killer with learning dis and asbergers and he was locked up amongst vulnerable adults. Now these people were supposed to be supervised by staff at all times but human error occurs all the time. In the 3 years I worked there a lovely young lad was raped by another lad around the same age while staff had a sneaky kip on the night shift. Now this lad who was raped was only there because his family had him sectioned after some violent episodes in the home so he was sectioned for evaluation, he was vulnerable and the system failed him, very sad.

Interested to hear if there is a provable link between cannabis and mental health but I suspect its really not that simple.

ONLY........... SOME VIOLENT EPISODES - I wonder if his family think only?

Yeah the service people get is shit but we allow it, or rather those who vote for successive governments do. In saying that someone sleeping on night duty is not the governments fault. It isn't human error either as you said it was a 'sneaky' kip they didn't fall asleep while trying to stay awake.

The only research that shows any real sort of a link is with young as in teenage smokers. And lets face it no matter how pro cannabis you are if you have two brain cells to rub together you should know young people canning cannabis every day wouldn't be a good idea.

[Diply]

Thanks i'll give it a listen. Its a subject that interests me. Before I was a stay at home mum I worked as a carer in a secure mental hospital. Don't think I could do it again though and go home with a clean conscience, many of the people locked up really could have been cared for in the community...being locked up I would say damages your mental health to some extent so its a counterproductive solution for many.

Also there was a big mix, some people were locked up because they were a danger to themselves or because they had mild learning disabilties and could be taken advantage of in the community. And well the worst fella in there was a child killer with learning dis and asbergers and he was locked up amongst vulnerable adults. Now these people were supposed to be supervised by staff at all times but human error occurs all the time. In the 3 years I worked there a lovely young lad was raped by another lad around the same age while staff had a sneaky kip on the night shift. Now this lad who was raped was only there because his family had him sectioned after some violent episodes in the home so he was sectioned for evaluation, he was vulnerable and the system failed him, very sad.

Interested to hear if there is a provable link between cannabis and mental health but I suspect its really not that simple.

apologies missjane, i didnt read this through properly, i just saw you hadnt listened to the program and thought id come back later...That story is a really sad one. The damage that would do to someone whos already mentally ill is immeasurable. I hope the staff involved (not yourself) got pulled up for it. I have worked in mental health too..with adolescents, and one thing i found was that the qualified nurses were often in the office all day and it was the carers who actually interacted with and talked to the patients the most.

[MissJane]

apologies missjane, i didnt read this through properly, i just saw you hadnt listened to the program and thought id come back later...That story is a really sad one. The damage that would do to someone whos already mentally ill is immeasurable. I hope the staff involved (not yourself) got pulled up for it. I have worked in mental health too..with adolescents, and one thing i found was that the qualified nurses were often in the office all day and it was the carers who actually interacted with and talked to the patients the most.

Yup precisely my experience too, and heaven forbid they get to see there doctor or phschologist in any timely manner

[MissJane]

ONLY........... SOME VIOLENT EPISODES - I wonder if his family think only?

Yeah the service people get is shit but we allow it, or rather those who vote for successive governments do. In saying that someone sleeping on night duty is not the governments fault. It isn't human error either as you said it was a 'sneaky' kip they didn't fall asleep while trying to stay awake.

The only research that shows any real sort of a link is with young as in teenage smokers. And lets face it no matter how pro cannabis you are if you have two brain cells to rub together you should know young people canning cannabis every day wouldn't be a good idea.

Heya nuube. By the word 'only' I just meant to convey that the incidents this lad had at home didn't really compare to the violence of some of the other patients. Apoligies, I didn't mean to downplay how hard it must have been for his family to cope at home.

And yes you are right, it was not human error choosing to have a kip, more like error of judgement, pardon me.

And I agree, any intoxicant used in excess by a developing brain surely has to have negative effects.

[nuube]

apologies missjane, i didnt read this through properly, i just saw you hadnt listened to the program and thought id come back later...That story is a really sad one. The damage that would do to someone whos already mentally ill is immeasurable. I hope the staff involved (not yourself) got pulled up for it. I have worked in mental health too..with adolescents, and one thing i found was that the qualified nurses were often in the office all day and it was the carers who actually interacted with and talked to the patients the most.

Sometimes due to the excessive paper work other times due to poor staff. I was a nurse in a former life and any decent nurse made time to be with the pt's, some avoided it by doing as much paper work as possible but few got to spend all day in the office, (or night) with out a good reason - well where I worked anyway.

[BeautySchoolDropOut]

My ex is Schizophrenic and he is genuinley the nicest guy I have ever met in my life... He used to smoke like a chimney and was an excellent horticulturist but I don't think that had any affect on his illness. He was diagnosed very young as well (which is really rare) and hadn't smoked pot before then. Not saying it's not connected, but I don't think it was in his case. His canna use didn't tie in with any of his episodes either so don't think it was related in his case. But I've heard that hallucinations on smoke aren't true hallucinations (as THC isn't a hallucigen) and that it is your mind warning you you have a predisposition to a mental illness... is that true or is that just my psychology teacher trying to scare us?

[mp3player]

Ive worked in Mental Health and Learning disabilities, Miss Jane sleeping on duty isnt an error of judgement its incompetence and lazyness of the highest order, they are responsible for peoples lives, if they dont give a fuck about their patients they are responsible for their collegues. Soryy shit like that pisses me off.....lol
SMOKin weed doesnt cause mental illness in brings it on if you are pre-disposed, if weed didnt bring it on something else would have. In teenagers and younger the brain and personality isnt fully formed and high levels of THC adversely effects it, or so they say.

[siddie]

schizophrenia may not manifest itself, and hemp can be triggered), read about it)

[Darth Matters]

This topic winds me up no end. It's the one the anti-drugs brigade always bring up. Of course smoking weed will make some people go loopy. Thats just basic common sense. These people shouldn't smoke it. It's not rocket science. I know a couple of guys who had to stay in a loony bin (probably not the most pc thing I've ever said, but I can assure you it's fine) for a wee while because they just kept smoking loads of weed whilst knowing what it was doing to them. I don't mean to sound heartless but you reap what you sow etc.

The people who are triggered to be mentally extreme on the weed are already that way, it's just finding the right(or wrong I suppose) trigger.

I'm not going to listen to the link because I've heard it all before. He's probably the kind of dude that claim weed is a gateway drug, of course it bloody is, you don't start on the Jack Daniels as a baby, you start on milk. We've all got to start somewhere.

All drugs should be legalised and controlled. I'm not saying this willing to defend my point, I'm just letting you guys know what the best thing to do is. Probably best starting to agree with me now, it'll save embarrassment down the line when it's obvious I was right. And I mean all drugs, legalize the lot. If someone wants to be a junkie, go ahead, see you later, at least you won't be robbing my Gran anymore(the more addictive drugs will be free of course). I have never taken any of the scumbag drugs, ie crack, smack, glue lol, but used to dabble in the past and firmly believe that taking no drugs whatsoever is the best route to go down. Very little good can come from taking drugs. Which is exactly why they should all be legalised.

[Diply]

I'm not going to listen to the link because I've heard it all before.

What..all of it..?

[Darth Matters]

What..all of it..?

Pretty much, unless there's some new evidence that I've not heard before, then in that case I've not heard the new evidence. I firmly believe/know that weed is a massive trigger for mental illness, but it is in such a small % the amount of people who will suffer is negligible. That may sound harsh but as someone who has to buy the only effective form of medicine for my illness from drug dealers, it makes me a little bit angry to be honest. It's because of people like this that I will never be legally allowed to take my medicine in this country. The link is obvious, but the positives far far outweigh the very small number of negatives. I sympathise with anyone who is affected with this side effect, but that's all it is, and if you get bad side effects you shouldn't take the drug.

[obiwan]

i think in life you are always going to get people who cant handle drugs/drink/food/extreme sports, lol, because mainly we are all different it manifests itself in different ways, just because you are not schizo doesnt mean you are ok , any body that developes a long standing habit of any kind is sufferering some kind of mental illness.... just the fact you are smoking weed will make you slightly paranoid, its against the law, you should be worried.. even if you dont show any outward sign you are still thinking in the subconcious... if it were legal i think a lot of paranoia would deminish? and maybe people wouldnt go so far downhill into shycosis ???? i wonder ??? i truly believe that the smoke i used to by and grow in the 70's was a lot less strong than it is today, commercially grown stuff nowadays is too damn strong, and i think the main cause of these poor buggers problems, i am over 50 now have smoke mj all my life, all i can say is back then this kind of shit wasnt happening to half the people it is today, non organic chemical nutes, badly dried and not cured properly, thats what you get off the street mostly and we dont know or care whats in it, or whats been sprayed on it, the sooner we can legalise it and get these cash croppers off the streets the better for all of us i think,

[Darth Matters]

So we meet again Obi Wan.....everything you said is correct so no battle to the death here!

[saif1311]

Tbh i dont think it can cause schizophrenia in otherwise healthy people the only thing its been proven to do is make an onset of psychosis faster if they have it in their genes. for example you were gonna get schizophrenia at 20 and you start smoking weed at 13. the weed might cause you to have it earlier. etc. but i do not think a normal healthy person can smoke and then go crazy. to me that sounds like reefer madness.

[Manny]

There have been several studies nay countless studies re the link cannabis = mental health problems...During my time as a front line social worker this came up almost on a daily basis & more often than not among the health professionals I liaised with agreed that latent mental health problems where perhaps brought to the fore by use of cannabis but cannabis itself was not the cause of it though did contribute to making an "episode" worse...