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Thread: soil v hydro

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by keeno View Post
    i nice little debate, exactly what i was hoping for! i feel a little comp coming on, a grow out of sorts.

    Totally forgot I did a Tabbatip on organics the other day. It won't convince most of the hydro heads here and it's not to settle any debate on which to use, but I thought you may find it useful to get a clear idea on what soil variations there are, and the difference between soil vs organically grown in soil:


    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbatha View Post
    Tabbatip #2 (what is organic soil growing and what it isn't.. in simplish terms):



    There are endless different types of composts and ways to mix our own soil and the range we have to work within is very broad, so it's easy to make something suitable. There are also various soil nutrients available. But do they constitute growing organically because we use them?

    This Tabbatip is about identifying a clear distinction between organic soil growing vs normal soil growing.

    An oft made assumption is that cannabis grown in any soil is organically grown weed, and equates to the same quality as organic weed.
    This soil weed is then compared to hydro weed and no noticeable difference is seen between hydro and organically grown weed. Then organically grown weed is slated before it's actually been tried because it was never really organically grown.

    I think it's a bit unfair to blame organics if it wasn't an organic grow, so I'm going to try and make the distinction:


    - We can have hydro grown.

    - We can have soil grown.

    - We can have organic hydro grown.

    - We can have organic soil grown.


    All are different from the other in their own right and all have pros and cons in their own right.


    For example.. if a plant is grown in John Innes soil (a decreasingly popular choice here).. it isn't being grown organically because the soil itself isn't organic, doesn't contain organically certified nutrients and isn't designed primarily to support a microherd. It's designed more to feed the plants and anchor its roots.

    This isn't the case with organic growing. Organic principals state that we feed the soil (the microherd) not the plant and only use nutrients, additives and soil that's organic and who's primary focus is to support the microlife and give them what they need to support the plant (in that order).

    The basic explanation of the science behind why there's a huge difference in quality and flavour between organics and non-organics is because of the way in which the microherd work in sync with a plant to produce specific ratios of essential oils, hormones and enzymes within the plant. These biological responses to the micro-activity cannot be produced in the same way without the microherd being in good health and in abundance. Without those biological responses, the weed can never taste or smoke as well as weed grown without that focus. That's what it would get being grown in the wild.


    We need to be very clear about what organic weed is because it gets a lot of bad press based largely on a misunderstanding about what constitutes organically grown weed and what doesn't.

    If we grow two clones, one in JI soil and one in Biobizz soil.. both with mineral nutrients.. then the organic soil won't make much difference, if any, because the mineral nutrients act to feed a plant directly with a little focus on the microherd, and they're absorbed without biological processing.

    However, if they were both fed organically using the microherd principal.. the biobizz grow will win because its designed to support the microlife first. JI or garden compost is not designed to do this and its primary goal is to feed the plant directly as well as support a basic microherd.

    Another thing that can affect the organic flavour is chlorinated water. Why? Because that kills the microherd, not the plant. Yes plants WILL grow in non-organic soil, but they won't grow in the same way. I'm not saying they won't grow bigger or have bigger buds or be bad quality weed.... I'm saying that the quality won't be the same because the real component behind that quality (the microherd) won't be fully present in a non-organic grow.

    Another way we render our grow non-organic is to use mineral nutrients. Another is to use acid ph adjusters or boosters. Or even sulfured molasses.

    All these upset or kill the microherd in the soil. We can use them once in a while and then repopulate the microherd afterwards and not lose too much of the quality.. but it's really best to stay fully organic start > finish for the very best results in terms of quality.


    For a proper organic grow, everything we do must be to support the little fellas and keep em topped-up so that they do what's best for the plant and give us that rich flavour we're after, so anything we do that harms them (including using non-organic soil) will affect the end quality.


    To recap that includes:

    - Using non-organic soil
    - Using non-organic nutrients and/or additives of any kind
    - Using acid ph adjusters
    - Using chlorinated water
    - Failing to maintain a soil populated with microherd (occasional compost tea is the best route)



    I promise you that if grown properly start > finish, truly organic soil-grown weed is in another league in terms of flavour and quality, but it won't be fully realised unless the proper organic principals are applied and followed throughout.

    Putting it simply.. if you grew a plant in JI#2 and compared it to a hydro grow.. there won't be much of a difference to notice because, believe it or not, the method of feeding the roots isn't that different between the two methods (direct).

    But, truly organic weed is like the difference between a bottle of Moet (still really really nice bubbly) to a bottle of Bollinger 79. Or a BMW to a Rolls Royce.

    Savvy?





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  3. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    i must say though , i grew in soil and the buds were more dense and tasty, theres been a lot of disagreements on this but thats just my opinion, like jimmi said coco too , the reason why ? its airy , plenty o2 to the roots, i also think thats the reason perlite is a must for soil, but answer to the question , soil id say tastier , hydro/coco faster and much better yield
    Yeah and it's not like hydro tastes shit or anything. It's still very high quality. Same as mineral grown. Just not the Gucci

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    you,ll never beat organic weed and thats a fact in my eyes, nice post tabs, in hydro its all about method, jimmi will say coco and some will say dwc , at the end of the day theres no feed in any of the mediums so its al about o2 to the roots and the enviroment

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  9. #25

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    I need to try some of this fabled organic stuff... Who's Wert anyway?

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  11. #26

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    it comes down to Quality vs Quantity with the organic soil being quality and hydro being quantity. I personally grow soil as i feel its more forgiving the soil acts as a buffer and will stabilize ph to a extent.

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    Hydroponic weed is god dam good shit and unless your a pureist , its hydro any day over organic for me, although ive never done it, organic seems and is a much harder way to grow imo , the yanks are mad for it and lots ive come across are real pureists as id say, but well nowts organic these days what we eat its all hydro again unless you buy oragnic which is more expensive , im naming it the great organic con.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi420 View Post
    Hydroponic weed is god dam good shit and unless your a pureist , its hydro any day over organic for me, although ive never done it, organic seems and is a much harder way to grow imo , the yanks are mad for it and lots ive come across are real pureists as id say, but well nowts organic these days what we eat its all hydro again unless you buy oragnic which is more expensive , im naming it the great organic con.
    I try to eat organic as much as possible. Food is soo full of shit now and i think its a major cause of cancer.
    I hear people say that the organic labeled stuff is prob not really organic and id have to say some prob isnt but the way i see it, surely i gotta be improving my odds of not eating as many chems.
    Plus iv been eating bits out the garden now to so thats gotta help. We are ment to eat as was intended. Your not gonna better natures way.

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  17. #29

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    if anyone is in doubt over the superior tasting product coming from organic you only have to look at the cannabis cup obviously the entrants want to provide the most tasty smelly attractive bud they can and what is their grow method? organic

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  19. #30

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    I'm goin organic with my next grow. I'm finding the most work is done before you grow.. Soil preparation. Then you just feed with water and compost teas til to end, easy as pie!

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerG View Post
    if anyone is in doubt over the superior tasting product coming from organic you only have to look at the cannabis cup obviously the entrants want to provide the most tasty smelly attractive bud they can and what is their grow method? organic
    I'm currently smoking two of the same strain, one grown with Plant Magic mineral nutes (not grown organically) and the other with biobizz nutes and guano (grow organically) and it's like two completely different stains. The former is lovely, but the latter is far superior quality in every way. I'd challenge anyone here to tell that it's the same strain.



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  22. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by wah wah View Post
    ...i would like to see a 15-20oz plant grown in soil....some ones gonna put a pic up now.
    Organic soil in a 100 gal pot. I think I got 15-20 oz I know it's not indoors but you didn't say it couldn't be outdoors. lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbatha View Post
    I'm currently smoking two of the same strain, one grown with Plant Magic mineral nutes (not grown organically) and the other with biobizz nutes and guano (grow organically) and it's like two completely different stains. The former is lovely, but the latter is far superior quality in every way. I'd challenge anyone here to tell that it's the same strain.


    Organic all the way as to quality, I heard so many times people that smokes, Hydro vers Organically in soil, that they would rather get the organically grown in soil then get hydro that use chem. nuts.
    Last edited by Hillbilly; 30-07-12 at 06:27 AM.
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  24. #33

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    I'm not joking that's the best outdoor plant I've seen on this forum so far.. by a long way!

    Mucho kudos.


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  26. #34
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    Personally I think this one is better but the other one came up first. about 1.5% better yield.

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  28. #35

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    Ok.. THAT'S definitely the best outdoor plant I've seen on ANY forum!!!



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  30. #36
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    Thanks, this year I think yield will be down but the quality will be up!

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  32. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greedo View Post
    I need to try some of this fabled organic stuff... Who's Wert anyway?
    wert was an old grumpy guy who knew everything about soil growing, this guy was yoda and thajnks to some little american prick he left the forum which was a massive loss
    Take it easy out there
    mh vs hps lil rasta's experiment http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...post1069367328
    New diary 2gpw is the target http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...will-have-2gpw
    Hydro trees may need help 1.536gpw http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...ouble-doughnut
    12/12 ww x vortex for hillbilly http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...post1069070774
    Finished 12/12 soil grow 1.365gpw, Hillbillys mt shasta+ dz's trifle:http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...post1069014713
    Finished multi strain soil grow, 1.225gpw: http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...rain-1st-diary

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  34. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly View Post
    Personally I think this one is better but the other one came up first. about 1.5% better yield.
    Boner

    I need 9 more words. Not usually a problem :P
    W
    Any suggestions are opinion only. I get some right, I get some wrong but I always try to help.

    How I set up my space?
    http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...post1069133241
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    http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...post1069133290
    Woody's germinating guide
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  36. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody J View Post
    Damn fella, where to start!
    Ok, I will start you with some.
    Problems in soil take much longer to resolve than hydro.
    ph can cause huge problems in both mediums but is much easier to correct in hydro.
    Plants tend to grow faster in hydro but the taste can sometimes not be as pleasant as with soil.
    Soil tends to be much less work than hydro, often needing watering just every 3 days. Hydro should really get daily checks.

    Hundreds left for other to have a go.
    W
    Water every 3 days maybe in winter im 2l per plant in this weather, fancy trying hydro but its not broken the smokes good and strong....happy with soil..

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  38. #40

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    the reason i started my first grow in soil was because of a lot of the reasons stated by you guys above. i done my research and found out it is a lot more forgiving and a lot easier to grow in. im not really interested in yield, for me im looking for the best bud i can possibly grow. so after reading all your posts and i think ill be sticking with soil. ill be using bio bizz all mix for next as i have with this grow. i will no doubt give hydro a go in the future, but quality not quantity is what im looking for. although i will be investing in some air pots, can anyone share any experience with them???

    thanks for all your posts and thanks for all popping in, some big names on this thread, all your input is much appreciated!

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