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Thread: Brown spots and curling tips on multiple plants

  1. #1

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    Default Brown spots and curling tips on multiple plants

    Soil or hydro: Soil
    plant age: 2 months since I started to germinate the seeds.
    pot size: 11l
    has it been repotted? and when?: yes, several weeks ago
    soil type: BioBizz Allmix
    nutes or additives used and how often for soil: BioBizz grow 1ml/l since about 3 weeks ago. I feed once a week.
    temps (max min): 20-27C
    humidity: 55-65%
    lighting type: 400W HPS (Osram Plantastar) in cooltube, about 20cm away from the plants.
    ph level: NA

    Hey!

    I'm growing 4 different strains in a wardrobe. SLH, C99 Blue Cheese and NL. I'm ready for flowering, but I want to correct any potential problems before I start.

    I had/have a problem with Mg and Nitrogen def. I have started to correct it with most plants, I added 1ts of epsom salt and calciumsulphate to 5 liters water couple of weeks ago. I know from my aquarium hobby that we have soft water where I live. So I thought I could also have a Ca def, that's why I added the calciumsulphate.

    Can someone please help, this is my first grow so I'm really unsure about what the problem is.

    (PS. The pictures were taken right after watering, so they look much more droopy then normal)

    Pictures:

    C99:










    SLH:






    BC:








    NL:



  2. #2
    northenlights Guest

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    Rust, cal,mag deficiency. I'd take all effect leafs of as it is mobile and can spread , id give some cal/mag in your next feed or if not feed yet give it a little in your next water What nutrients you using ?

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    That looks like out of the box, standard P def to me.
    What is your runoff ph?

    P def's in veg are unusual, unless the ph is out.
    http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...phorus-%28P%29
    This link tells you more about P.
    W
    Any suggestions are opinion only. I get some right, I get some wrong but I always try to help.

    How I set up my space?
    http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...post1069133241
    Woody's cloning method
    http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...post1069133290
    Woody's germinating guide
    http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...post1069199806

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    Hmm, so first step is to measure the PH and make sure that's correct and add more Epsom + Calcium?`

    I'm pretty sure my girls starved a bit so I could add a larger dose of nutes, next watering.

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    Ok I checked PH today, runoff is 6.5, soil sample mixed with distilled water is between 6.5 and 7.0, closer to 7.0. And my tap water is 7.5.

    I removed all the damaged leaves and gave the plants this weeks feed which contained this time of BioBizz 1.5ml/l grow, 0.5ml/l bloom and 0,5ml Top Max.

    Any suggestions on what to do next, should I spray with some water and epsom salt?

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    Dr666:

    You definitely have a Calcium deficiency. You can foliar feed your babies with one teaspoon of dolomite lime in a quart of water and one to two teaspoons in a gallon of water about two times to get the lime down to the roots (slower acting, foliar feeding will show faster results). Be careful because lime ups the PH so you'll need to be vigilant, that's why I thought is unusual with your initial post, you said PH was n/a.

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    BTW: I'd attempt to keep the PH around 6.5, that way you're less like to suffer from Manganese and iron def., and it appears your ladies need some magnesium, a little epsom will take care of that, but only in minuscule amounts, maybe 1/4 teaspoon per gallon for one to two feedings unless you've taking other steps to rectify that situation.
    Last edited by budstud; 11-02-13 at 10:19 AM. Reason: spelling

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    I apologize for continually posting but I remembered something else. Anytime you're growing in soil you should always add at least one to two teaspoons of dolomite lime to your soil mixture per gallon of soil, it'll help keep it stable to help avoid any def's.

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    Could I explain why this is NOT an Mg deficiency.
    Mg is essential to the photosynthesis process, without it, the plant cannot photosynthesise, so when a plant is deficient, the leaves pale due to the lack of photosynthesis, however, the veins stay dark.
    The leaves that are yellowing all have pale veins to go with the leaf matter.
    Where there is some striping, it is accompanied by necrotic patches, not yellowing.

    Therefore this cannot be an Mg def.

    Your ph is good, so the issue is down to environment or feed levels.
    The more I look at this, the more I think you need to increase the level of feed. This doesnt have to be 3 or 4ml per l, just go feed, water, feed, water for a week or 2 and see how they respond.
    A drop of superthrive or big bud or similar with each l of water and removing any leaves more than 50% damaged should see some improvements.
    W

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    Plant Pathology Circular No. 354 Fla. Dept. Agric. & Consumer Serv.
    July-August 1992 Division of Plant Industry
    MAGNESIUM DEFICIENCY OF FOLIAGE PLANTS
    J. J. McRitchie
    1
    Symptoms of magnesium (Mg) deficiency are among the most widely observed nutritional problems in Florida foliage
    plant production (1,2). Magnesium is a key constituent of chlorophyll, the green pigment in plants which is responsible
    for phytosynthesis. It is also active in enzyme systems (4). Soilless artificial growing media frequently used in Florida are
    low in Mg, requiring a fertilizer program supplying Mg. Many plant nutrients are readily leached from Florida's sandy
    soils (3).
    SYMPTOMS: Magnesium, not to be confused with manganese (Mn), is easily translocated within the plant (4). It is
    preferentially moved to rapidly differentiating terminal areas of the plant; thus deficiencies are evident in older leaves
    first. Calcium in plants exists in a sensitive balance with magnesium and some other nutrients. What appears to be an
    excess of calcium may be the result of a lack of magnesium; whereas, an apparent excess of magnesium may respond to
    the addition of calcium (4).
    In most foliage plants, chlorosis progresses inward and downward from the upper leaf margins, leaving an inverted Vshaped green area at the leaf base and a V-shaped area at
    the leaf tip (Fig. 1). Eventually, rusty brown necrosis
    begins where chlorosis was first apparent. The chlorosis
    which develops is a bronze yellow color giving Mg
    deficiency the name "bronzing disease" (2).
    Many of the foliage ornamentals with pinnately veined
    leaves (such as Philodendron scandens subsp.
    oxycardium) and the palms (such as
    Chrysalidocarpus lutescens) exhibit this
    symptomatology (1,2).
    FERTILIZATION: Foliage plants have high requirements
    for calcium (Ca) and Mg (1,2). Both are available in
    dolomite, which is slowly available and should be added
    to the media. Tissue levels of 0.35 to 0.50 percent dry
    weight Mg should be maintained (2).
    SURVEY AND DETECTION: Look for an inverted Vshaped green area at the leaf base surrounded by a
    chlorotic area.

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    I found this interesting, observe below... either way it appears either to be calcium/manganese/magnesium... which?... since calcium/magnesium can run hand in hand, and manganese def's appear with high PH levels.

    Deficiency Symptoms

    Because Mn is not translocated in the plant, deficiency symptoms appear first on younger leaves. The most common symptoms on most plants are interveinal chlorosis. Sometimes a series of brownish-black specks appear in the affected areas. In small grains, grayish areas appear near the base of younger leaves. Manganese deficiencies occur most often on soils with a high pH and/or naturally low Mn content. Conifers will exhibit a general yellowing of the current season's needles.

    Toxicity

    Manganese toxicity is a relatively common problem compared to other micronutrient toxicity. It normally is associated with soils of pH 5.5 or lower, but can occur whenever the soil pH is below 6.0. Symptoms include chlorosis and necrotic lesions on old leaves, dark-brown or red necrotic spots, accumulation of small particles of MnO2 in epidermal cells of leaves or stems, often referred to as "measles", drying leaf tips, and stunted roots. Sometimes the interveinal tissue will show "puckering" or raised areas in the leaves. Toxic symptoms can sometimes be alleviated by using Iron chelates applied to either the soil or preferably the foliage. Some acid-loving plants such as blueberries, cranberries, Christmas trees, azaleas, etc. may accumulate very high levels of Mn in their tissue due to the required low soil pH. However, these plants normally will tolerate much higher tissue Mn than other species.

    It appears your PH is stable but had to be skewed to be developing the symptoms. Best course of action is to "keep" your PH stable and apply "ALL" nutrients at modest amounts, your plants will then improve.

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    Thanks for the reply guys.

    I wrote N/A for PH because I hadn't measured it at that time.

    Can I use calcium sulphate instead of dolomite lime to correct the calcium issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody J View Post
    Could I explain why this is NOT an Mg deficiency.
    Mg is essential to the photosynthesis process, without it, the plant cannot photosynthesise, so when a plant is deficient, the leaves pale due to the lack of photosynthesis, however, the veins stay dark.
    The leaves that are yellowing all have pale veins to go with the leaf matter.
    Where there is some striping, it is accompanied by necrotic patches, not yellowing.

    Therefore this cannot be an Mg def.

    Your ph is good, so the issue is down to environment or feed levels.
    The more I look at this, the more I think you need to increase the level of feed. This doesnt have to be 3 or 4ml per l, just go feed, water, feed, water for a week or 2 and see how they respond.
    A drop of superthrive or big bud or similar with each l of water and removing any leaves more than 50% damaged should see some improvements.
    W


    ^^ Boooooy.. if there was ever a post that hits the nail on the head it's that one.

    Biobizz at 0.5mls? Guaranteed there'll be a P def. Guaranteed. Then K. And mag at some point. Not necessarily in that order, either.

    Biobizz gets a lot of bad press for being low in mag, but these days it's not only is it low on mag, it's also WOEFULLY low on Phosphor. In fact it's low in everything but Nitrogen these days, it seems.

    Lately Biobizz have really cut corners on there nutes and I would no longer even recommend it for growing cannabis in good conscience.

    Trust in thine Tabba and switch to Plant Magic Oldtimer nutes. You'll see and end to both your mag and P defs. Oh, and you'll use WAY less of the nutrient itself avign you tons of cash.

    In other words, what I see in those pics is simply the effects of using Biobizz, and also way too little of it. I struggled like that for so long in my own groom until I stopped using Biobizz. I found that even at more than max doses (in hardwater) it still wasn't anywhere near enough P, K and mag for cannabis. Great for N, shite for much everything else nowadays.

    Oldtimer will take away your pain in 10 days.



    I am the light of this forum and I am its mean twisted soul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbatha View Post

    Biobizz at 0.5mls? Guaranteed there'll be a P def. Guaranteed. Then K. And mag at some point. Not necessarily in that order, either...
    Well the plants are still in veg and I gave them 1.5ml / liter grow, and they are in all mix soil so even that was 0.5ml more nutes than recommended. + 0.5ml bloom and 0.5ml top max. I got slight nute burn now so I don't think they are getting to little feed at the moment.

    So I watered them a couple of days ago, and I gave them only 1ml grow because of the nute burn and 0,5ts calcium sulphate per plant and it seems to be helping.

    If you think this is a Phosphor problem, should I try and increase my PH to about 6.7 and give them only bloom nutes next watering?

    I can't afford new nutes right now, really broke at the moment. But I'll remember it when I start my next grow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr666 View Post
    If you think this is a Phosphor problem, should I try and increase my PH to about 6.7 and give them only bloom nutes next watering?
    Actually, if you need to stick with what you have available for now, then that's not a bad idea as it will up the P in the soil for at least a week or so. Certainly won't do any critical harm. If it were me I'd throw in about.. say.. 4mls p/ltr of bloom.

    Good luck man.


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