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Thread: Gene migration - does that happen in Cannabis?

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    Default Answered: Gene migration - does that happen in Cannabis?

    I came across this "gene migration" when I was looking at grafting chillies. Back in school I was taught that the scion and the stock do no exchange genes, turns out that isn't true. Apparently the genes from the stock can travel into the scion. The grafted plant then completes its life cycle, and the traits from the stock plant get expressed in the following generation.

    So, does the same happen in Cannabis? I had a quick look and there is SFA online on this subject online.

    City Dweller's colloidal silver (CS) project got me thinking... Say if I had wanted to make some S1 seeds too to preserve traits, rather than messing with the CS, would grafting onto a male root stock work? Or, graft a male onto the strain that I want to preserve? So rather have some of the traits diluted, than "waking up" any hermie genes that would carry on through the generations.
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  2. "Hey Valentina, I'm also very interested in the breeding side of cannabis. From what I understand, the best way to preserve the desired traits would be to breed as far out as you can to make the strain homogenous. Nature does this process the best by weeding out the weakness & keeps crossing itself with the strongest examples of itself. This takes generations of breeding & culminates in what we call Landrace strains.
    If you want to keep traits from a strain you would need to find a male & female that possess the traits you're after, you would then breed those two together to create F1 seeds.
    Generally F1 will be quite stable, showing the dominant traits from both parents, to further impress those traits, you would take the F1 & backcross with it's opposite parent, this would create BX1.
    The further out you go with the filial breeding, the wider the traits will show. This will also start to become more stable as you keep breeding the desired traits with each other. Say you're now at F10, you will start to see more & more uniformed plants, each possessing the traits you want, how far you go would be down to preference.
    Keep in mind these seeds will all be regs, to create fems, you need to find an example of the strain to like, you would then take cuts from the female plant. Once you have them rooted & vegging, you need to flip the female plant to flower & start applying the cs spray, this will reverse the flowers to produce pollen, this pollen is then used to pollinate her progeny, the seeds produced from the cuts will be fems, however, they will show signs of different traits from the original plant & the dominant alleles from the parent plants of the chosen specimen. Those seeds would be S1
    There are only a few truly homogenous strains left in the world, I can't recall off the top of my head most of them, but Northern Lights is an example of an extremely stable strain.
    There is a book called The principles of Plant Breeding, it's an amazing read."


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    Default

    I'm going for a lie down after reading that lol
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    Wait... does that mean my seeds will have hermie genetics passed on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CityDweller View Post
    Wait... does that mean my seeds will have hermie genetics passed on?
    Hard to say how dormant the herminess would be in the next generation!

    I am still very new to this game so I am just trying to figure my way around what is scientific truth, vs tradition, vs anecdotal incidents.

    I don't know for sure but my understanding is that all weed can go hermie if stressed the "right" amount and the "right" duration, and fem seeds come about because the stress had been applied strategically. The flip side is that the easier a plant is the succumb to strategically applied "stress", the more likely they are to hermie - which seem to make sense. Hence I have not yet gone down the path of colloidal silver.

    Frankly I need to do a seed grow as my germination technique needs some serious dialling in! But, I am also wary of any increase of chances in them going hermie, which is why I try to stick to regular seeds than fem seeds. But if push comes to shove, I would be spraying that colloidal silver too!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentina View Post
    Hard to say how dormant the herminess would be in the next generation!

    I am still very new to this game so I am just trying to figure my way around what is scientific truth, vs tradition, vs anecdotal incidents.

    I don't know for sure but my understanding is that all weed can go hermie if stressed the "right" amount and the "right" duration, and fem seeds come about because the stress had been applied strategically. The flip side is that the easier a plant is the succumb to strategically applied "stress", the more likely they are to hermie - which seem to make sense. Hence I have not yet gone down the path of colloidal silver.

    Frankly I need to do a seed grow as my germination technique needs some serious dialling in! But, I am also wary of any increase of chances in them going hermie, which is why I try to stick to regular seeds than fem seeds. But if push comes to shove, I would be spraying that colloidal silver too!!
    Sounds like I should pop 10 seeds into fast flower and make sure they are not hermies before I share. Thanks for all the info!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CityDweller View Post
    Sounds like I should pop 10 seeds into fast flower and make sure they are not hermies before I share. Thanks for all the info!
    CityDweller, it's cool, mate. Fingers crossed they grow fine! Pretty impressive that you have kept a pheno for so long!

    I am just trying to find a way to dodge possible problems (and probably imaginary ones too!) whilst armed with limited info LOL. Roses, citrus, cherries, peaches, apricots, nectarines, apples (some tomatoes and chillies too) are all grafted plants as far as I know, and the reason is for yield, pest resistance etc. So why not cannabis?

    Their life cycle is so short that I am surprised it's not more commonly done, or, perhaps the success rate is poor? But I can't say I buy that because even on an Auto plant (Red Russian XXL Auto, by Victory Seeds) with a split stem during flowering, that split healed up in about a week. So the mortality rate can't be that bad, surely?

    Long story short, if a 14-week flowering time strain got grafted onto a 6-week plant, and flowering time is shortened to say 9 weeks with may be slightly reduced yield volume but of near enough the same effects, I am game! But I'd like to see how well grafting works first before going into trying with male plants to make seeds. But that's just me.

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    Hey Valentina, I'm also very interested in the breeding side of cannabis. From what I understand, the best way to preserve the desired traits would be to breed as far out as you can to make the strain homogenous. Nature does this process the best by weeding out the weakness & keeps crossing itself with the strongest examples of itself. This takes generations of breeding & culminates in what we call Landrace strains.
    If you want to keep traits from a strain you would need to find a male & female that possess the traits you're after, you would then breed those two together to create F1 seeds.
    Generally F1 will be quite stable, showing the dominant traits from both parents, to further impress those traits, you would take the F1 & backcross with it's opposite parent, this would create BX1.
    The further out you go with the filial breeding, the wider the traits will show. This will also start to become more stable as you keep breeding the desired traits with each other. Say you're now at F10, you will start to see more & more uniformed plants, each possessing the traits you want, how far you go would be down to preference.
    Keep in mind these seeds will all be regs, to create fems, you need to find an example of the strain to like, you would then take cuts from the female plant. Once you have them rooted & vegging, you need to flip the female plant to flower & start applying the cs spray, this will reverse the flowers to produce pollen, this pollen is then used to pollinate her progeny, the seeds produced from the cuts will be fems, however, they will show signs of different traits from the original plant & the dominant alleles from the parent plants of the chosen specimen. Those seeds would be S1
    There are only a few truly homogenous strains left in the world, I can't recall off the top of my head most of them, but Northern Lights is an example of an extremely stable strain.
    There is a book called The principles of Plant Breeding, it's an amazing read.

    "A word to the wise isn't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice."

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    Hey Loki, thanks for that!! Great to see books written specifically written for this subject

    I guess what is clear is that City D is looking at making S1 of his plant, whereas I am wandering between propagation by grafting, and straight male-female crosses! So two different things entirely, which also explains why there just are't very many quick flowering, small, regular sativas LOL! Come to think of it, from a commercial breeder's point of view, it could be bad business...

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