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View Full Version : which grow kit for my small but tall area?



hiddenkoncept
03-12-13, 03:04 PM
i
First time grow and very much still in the planning phases and second read through of the grow bible.

My problem

I wanted to grow using a DWC 4 pot system in my grow room with header pot and reservoir but I may not have enough space. I contacted retailers to ask advice and dimensions when set up but they did not have that much information for me. The space I do have is:
H 249cm
W 84cm
D 64cm

I have no turned my attention to either a small NFT or a 4 pot Wilma but I'm up for suggestions
Any ideas of how to make best use of the height?

Thanks in a advance for any help

galt
03-12-13, 04:11 PM
You make best use of the height by not burning your plants. Don't try to fill the height, unless you want to do something really unusual with lighting and fill the space with vertical fluorescents or LEDs. The square footage will generally determine your yield, not the cubic footage.

You can go with SOG style grow and try to jam 4-5 plants in there. Keep them small, flower them young. They will be less than a foot tall when you flower them, maybe only 6-8 inches.
Or you can go with a more conventional grow and put two (or one) plants in, give them some training, and flower them a few weeks later.
Or you can do a mini-scrog (not recommended for first grow) and use one plant to fill the entire space.

All three have about the same potential total yield, and none of them rely on height as long as you have enough. YOU have way more than enough.

To better use the space, you could put a second space at the top and make a separate clone/veg area. That would improve your turnaround time a bit. If it was me, I would make it into two spaces of 175 cm and 75 cm height. Or maybe 185 and 65. Or 200 and 50. Your lighting choice will affect which one.

Once you make this basic decision, THEN you can think about what type of system is best. You can do a one plant NFT, but I have never seen one.

hiddenkoncept
03-12-13, 04:50 PM
Thank you very much for the advice it has been a big help. I did think about turning it into two areas but thought that might be a bit complicated for my first time/set up.
My thoughts on SOG again something I will look into as I learn.
I plan on using a Adjust-a-Wing Avenger Reflector led 400\600w as lighting.

I'm currently leaning towards building my own DWC set up as I have seen many a video I instructing me how
I have seen a 6 pot potz hybrid flood and drain bubbler system on their website but can't actually find a store that stocks them.
But cannot seem to find that actually selling anywhere.
My last thoughts were to something like the Wilma Hydro Organic Systems but my heart wants DWC.
Again I can't thank you enough for you help

galt
03-12-13, 05:03 PM
With LED, height is your enemy as well. They do not penetrate deeply into the canopy, so you want flat plants ala scrog) Unless you put LEDS on all the walls too. That MIGHT be cool !! Not sure if that is overkill for your space, check with an LED person.

SOG is as simple as it gets. SCROG on other end of complicated.

Good Luck.

hiddenkoncept
03-12-13, 05:04 PM
Edit: 4 pot system

hiddenkoncept
03-12-13, 05:11 PM
I plan to have the LEDs suspended on a rail system that can be lowered so I didn't think height would be an issue...may have to rethink this.
Led lights on the walls is an option!
On second thought a SOG might be the way to go, just need to decide on my system of choice.

I'm sure in time I will be able to come up with my own ideas as to how to solve my problem.

Thanks again

Upton
03-12-13, 05:43 PM
LED on the walls is not an option due to the clearance they require.. I get bleaching any less than 12/14 inches.

I'd split the area (175 / 75) as Galt recommends and flower 1 plant at a time.

Don't buy a system mate.. get one black 35L/42L really useful box and make your own for a fraction of the cost... a good air pump to consider is a hailea v 60.

hiddenkoncept
03-12-13, 06:08 PM
I'm currently looking at DIY ideas and trying to find what I think is easy and effective.
On second thought splitting might not be an option due to room layout.

Any good links to diy DWC systems?

hiddenkoncept
03-12-13, 06:13 PM
There are 3 of us who smoke in this house and we all have disabilities and or mental health issues.
The reason I keep trying to find ways of growing 4 plants is because we need 2/3 certain strains that help us out without any negative effects.

UPTON your set up is great!....just like your football team
#foreverblowingbubbles

galt
03-12-13, 06:21 PM
There are 3 of us who smoke in this house and we all have disabilities and or mental health issues.
The reason I keep trying to find ways of growing 4 plants is because we need 2/3 certain strains that help us out without any negative effects.

UPTON your set up is great!....just like your football team
#foreverblowingbubbles

How much do each of you smoke (per month) ? We should be starting with the basics. And that is having adequate space for your needs or a plan that suits you.

hiddenkoncept
03-12-13, 08:08 PM
I can't believe I didn't mention how much we smoke. We smoke about 3 oz a month between us so as long as we yield that we will be happy...but ideally using 3-6 plants

Upton
03-12-13, 09:06 PM
I would find another space mate because your going to stuggle in that area.

hiddenkoncept
03-12-13, 09:17 PM
Thanks...im going to see if Thats a possibility .
If not I'm going to attempt to build my own DWC system and use training in order to increase yields

Upton
03-12-13, 09:42 PM
start a diary when you do mate :)

Mr_Bimble
03-12-13, 11:22 PM
With 84*64 floor space you only have room for 2 plants max.

I could only just fit four in a 100*100 area - With a 400W HPS I got 400g dry with that setup.

So If you want 100g per month then you're looking at 120*120 and a 600W HPS to get anywhere near what you need yield wise.

galt
04-12-13, 12:20 AM
The rule of thumb is 1 oz / sq ft ( I think in American units) every 3 month cycle. So to produce 9 oz you need 9 square feet. That could be one plant or nine plants, but 9 sq ft. Everything else flows from that. Lights, systems, training, but you will never get 9-10 oz a cycle from the 5 sq ft you have. You might get six oz a year from now if you are a very good grower. Tightening up the cycle time can help a bit too, but it may be stressful and will limit your choices of strains. So maybe you can get a cycle down to 9-10 weeks if you have a separate veg area.

If that is REALLY the only space you have, you should look at splitting it into two grows, each 125 cm high. That is REALLY tight, and you will have to scrog with LEDS to make it work. But that gets you your 9-10 sq ft and 9-10 oz/ cycle. Stagger the timing so you harvest one grow every 5-6 weeks. You will need another small space for seedlings or cloning, it could be a kitchen cabinet or nightstand. But even with that, I would not suggest three strains at once, so you may have to stagger them. Ideal would be one strain at a time per scrog every 5-6 weeks, get your 4-5 ounces, and pretty soon you have enough inventory for everybody to carry you to the next cycle.

Does that help get you thinking ? :banghead:

hiddenkoncept
04-12-13, 02:22 AM
This was very helpful I'm still starting out so its good to be told straight up what can and can't be done.
Now that the rose tinted glasses are off I can think about which of your ideas i m going to go with.
TBH its a small flat that we run a legit business from so most space is taken up but office equipment and storage so this really is the only place I can use. Finding a small space for seedlings will not be a problem.
I have not looked too much into scrog but will have a look now.

I'm pretty sure splitting it into is the best solution, is that what you would do in my situation?

I'm very greatful for all the advice it can be very overwelming at first

hiddenkoncept
04-12-13, 02:24 AM
1 plant on each section or 2?
I imagine tall Sativa's are out of the question?

galt
04-12-13, 03:44 AM
You could probably do Sativas. Limiting factors are skill and time.
One or two is growers choice.Two will cycle a couple of weeks quicker, but you will have some extra challenges to work out.

I would never tell a new grower to start with a scrog. That includes you. But if that is where you need to get to, it is good to know and have a plan.

Knowing what you told me (minus what I forgot already), your first grow should probably be 3 plants (one for each of you). Do a bit of LST and flower them short. Focus on getting the healthiest plants and best quality you can get. Choose LED lighting that will work for you later with lower height available. Get your air extraction installed, with a plan to modify it later for two spaces. Likewise electric and plumbing. Use the first grow for education and to try out some ideas. Usually I suggest people start with dirt (or coco), but IF you are going to do hydro you need to get some learning under your belt, even at the risk of losing an entire crop first and having to start over. I am thinking four months for practice/learning grow. Ay the end of the first grow, you can evaluate your plans again based on what you learned, before going to the extra expense and complexity of the second area. Then build out your new closet, and you are in business with two sections.

I personally would not go DWC in such a small space. But I guess it is possible, might require a homemade one. And in a SCROG it will probably have to be RDWC so you do not disturb the plants once they are in place. But maybe not. Do you have space for a reservoir (maybe 100-120L) outside the closet ? That solves a lot of problems. Personally I can see a double NFT system, with a common reservoir at the bottom or outside for best access. The could give you the most usable height, since the channels only needs a few inches of height each.

You say you are running a business out of this space. Is the noise of running fans and pumps going to be an issue ?

hiddenkoncept
04-12-13, 11:09 AM
No I have an 2 eBay shops and a body jewellery company so noise is not an issue as it just us who live here who have to deal with it.

UPDATE GOOD NEWS!!!!
I have convinced my girlfriend to let me swap our office space, so I will now use my small tall area for storage and I can convert my walk in wardrobe into a grow area!!!

Sizing it up now!!

hiddenkoncept
04-12-13, 11:26 AM
Ok nows its not a whole lot bigger but its a much better space, in my bedroom, ability to make a vent and send the heat outside if need be (although trying to avoid that)
My new space is
Height 250cm
Width 135cm
Depth 70cm

I did want an RDWC and could have the res sitting outside the small space, but not the new one as that is my bedroom and would like it all inside the cupboard.

If I have said it before I will say it again...thankyou

hiddenkoncept
04-12-13, 11:44 AM
Something like this is what I had in mind before I realised how small my space washttp://www.greensea-hydroponics.co.uk/shop/dwc-4-potz-system.html

Upton
04-12-13, 11:45 AM
You could make a 2 pot RDWC system in that space mate.. a bit like this but with 2 pots not 3;

https://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=236710&d=1385727642

BTW. if you need any help building the system checkout Hannibals RDWC thread.. Hann is the THCTalk RDWC guru

greenthumb123
04-12-13, 11:48 AM
Hello mate, I would seriously consider an n.f.t system in that space. This is roughly the same area I have and I use a 400 watt h.p.s. for flowering, I grow 1 plant from seed in a gt205 n.f.t. tank. A very productive method. My last grow produced 6 ounces using a 250 watt light and with many newbie errors throughout the grow( check the white rhino link in my sig) so my yield will improve a-lot now with the extra lumens. The other link ( peppermint kush)shows a plant in the same system but with a 400 watt lamp replacing the 250 and this time no mistakes. A huge difference. Hope this helps mate.

hiddenkoncept
04-12-13, 11:57 AM
It all helps mate thanks. I'm thinking of making a 2 pot system with a res. Possibly based on the iws or potz systems but will check out Hannibal's thread first.

hiddenkoncept
04-12-13, 12:30 PM
You could make a 2 pot RDWC system in that space mate.. a bit like this but with 2 pots not 3;

https://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=236710&d=1385727642

BTW. if you need any help building the system checkout Hannibals RDWC thread.. Hann is the THCTalk RDWC guru

Thank you! He is the master.

Could I ask which LED lights you use UPTON?

Upton
04-12-13, 12:37 PM
He is mate lmao

I use an Eshine 150x3w.. i think they call it the ES300. Its an 11 spectrum diamond series. BUT if you're looking at buying led's I suggest you checkout the Grownorthern Ms0006 series panels because they're my favorites at the moment :)

hiddenkoncept
04-12-13, 05:03 PM
He is mate lmao

I use an Eshine 150x3w.. i think they call it the ES300. Its an 11 spectrum diamond series. BUT if you're looking at buying led's I suggest you checkout the Grownorthern Ms0006 series panels because they're my favorites at the moment :)

They look good, and a good price! I expected to pay about £400 for good LEDs.
Another tick of my check list

hiddenkoncept
04-12-13, 05:32 PM
Will they provide enough watt for my area ?

galt
04-12-13, 06:26 PM
No I have an 2 eBay shops and a body jewellery company so noise is not an issue as it just us who live here who have to deal with it.

UPDATE GOOD NEWS!!!!
I have convinced my girlfriend to let me swap our office space, so I will now use my small tall area for storage and I can convert my walk in wardrobe into a grow area!!!

Sizing it up now!!

That is great!! But I was looking forward to helping you design that weird 2-tiered grow. :banghead:

With that space you are just over 10 sq feet, almost twice the size of the other space. You should now be able to hit your 9-10 oz goal by your second grow. It just makes so many things easier. Lets you use a 400 HPS (or 2x200). You do NOT have to scrog, which is good IMHO. You can do the three varieties at one time that you wanted. The reservoir can go into the room (If you even need one)


Congrats on getting your GF on board!!

And now my suggestions change radically. Get a grow started. Get your light and heat extraction in place and working. But do your first grow in dirt or maybe coco. Hand water everything. It is simple, low investment, and gives you a few months to learn more about DWC, RDWC, NFT, and more. Focus your energy on getting healthy plants, learning to train them, and manage water, feed, bugs, humidity, mold, and all the other challenges you will face. Save hydro for your second grow. Just my opinion.

hiddenkoncept
04-12-13, 06:52 PM
Thanks Galt,you guys have been a lot of help! After what you taught me with the whole oz/sq foot I think we are going to run two plants....once I have everything in place I may add another if I feel there is space.
Going with 400w LED
Most of my research has been put into DWC so I will probably stick with that TBH but I may take your advice and just do a soil grow with a plant to start with and learn more about the field .

Thanks guys

galt
04-12-13, 08:01 PM
Thanks Galt,you guys have been a lot of help! After what you taught me with the whole oz/sq foot I think we are going to run two plants....once I have everything in place I may add another if I feel there is space.
Going with 400w LED
Most of my research has been put into DWC so I will probably stick with that TBH but I may take your advice and just do a soil grow with a plant to start with and learn more about the field .

Thanks guys

Be sure to keep us posted !!