1s timer seeks advice on heat/ventilation/smell :-)

[scoobster]

Hey everyone

Inspired by Shark's stealth cupboard (and a famine) I bit the bullet and went for it. Well sort of! Bought my light (250W CPL) and seeds. Germinated the seeds on paper on a Friday, ran out to buy soil (John Innis) but couldn't get pots so put them all in a seed tray. Their house is the middle shelf of a former airing cupboard which they share with random junk (top shelf) and cat litter tray (floor). I did a quick paint job to brighten it up....then left them there for about 2 weeks before putting them in pots (5" :-( but that was all I could find!)

They're now 5 weeks old, pretty short but with a slight familiar aroma ;-)

I never got round to setting up the light so that it could be raised up and down, I'm pretty cack handed and slap dash but a week ago had the idea of stacking them on tupperware to bring them closer to the light.

I don't have a thermometer but whenever I open the cupboard, it feels slightly warmer than the room so guessing about 22C.

My ventilation consists of me blowing on them once a day and possible air movement from the cats going in and out to do their business :pimped:

I'd originally thought of fitting some sort of extraction at the top, thinking it may draw out some air and create movement (the inflow would be the cat flap in the bottom)


But now I'm thinking of getting a fan heater to warm up the cupboard a bit and also get a lot of air movement. Hopefully this will speed up their growth and make them potent :-) The big advantage is all I have to do is pop to Argos and not do any of my crap DIY. But obviously there won't be much air in and out and if they end up stinking I'll still have to fit extraction! The cupboard's in the hall, 1m from the front door.

Any advice greatly appreciated :leaf::leaf::leaf::leaf:

Thanks!

Scoobster

[scoobster]

PS Forgot to say, my main worry with the fan heater (apart from a fire!!!) is that it will frazzle and kill the leaves....The heater will be a max 10 cm from the nearest plant but I think I've found one that shouldn't blow air that's too hot or overheat....



http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4151285/Trail/searchtext%3EFAN+HEATER.htm

Scoobster :-)

[dj #]

you have absolutely no idea about what your temperatures are, and no point guessing either
go get a decent max/min temperature guage and see if you really need a fan heater in the first place
also the reason your 5 week old plants are so small and under-developed is because you are providing no constant air movement, so you are effectively suffocating your plants
without air movement they cannot breath its as simple as that, and im sure you know what happens when you cant breath!?
blowing on them once a day isnt going to help much at all, get a small fan to move the air about the plants ok, its essential!


EDIT: the ammonia gas given off by stale urine in the cats litter tray wont help the plants either by the way

[Far Side]

hey there,

i'll help where i can.

my advise is
1. get a thermometer, one with a min max reading less than a tenner from b&q
2. if you dont know the exact temps then how do u know u need a heater?
its very unlikely you will need a heater in there at all mate.
3. yes sort some extraction, the plants need a steady flow of fresh air, and maybe a normal fan for air movement.

hope that helps, i'm not an expert but i have learnt a lot recently.

[Far Side]

you have absolutely no idea about what your temperatures are, and no point guessing either
go get a decent max/min temperature guage and see if you really need a fan heater in the first place
also the reason your 5 week old plants are so small and under-developed is because you are providing no constant air movement, so you are effectively suffocating your plants
without air movement they cannot breath its as simple as that, and im sure you know what happens when you cant breath!?
blowing on them once a day isnt going to help much at all, get a small fan to move the air about the plants ok, its essential!


EDIT: the ammonia gas given off by stale urine in the cats litter tray wont help the plants either by the way




Whoops SNAP.

[scoobster]

Thanks guys :-)

lol @ the ammonia comment.

My arse is duly slapped...thermometer top of my To Do List!

So air movement's a big important factor???!!! Is it more important than temp...if get a fan, I'm sure the temp will drop as it'll push the warm air around the plants away and so maybe I'll need a heater....?

Scoobster

[dj #]

plants dont have lungs and must rely completely on wind movement to keep a constant source of fresh air around its leaves so it can 'breath'
get yourself a fan as fresh moving air is as important to a plant as light, water, temperature, nutrients and growing medium ;)

lol all you want at the ammonia statement, but if the atmosphere is becoming saturated with ammonia gas, which it will be as it is constantly given off from used litter trays, then this can actually harm your plants breathing in too much ammonia :puke:

just trying to help :)

dj#

[Far Side]

Thanks guys :-)

lol @ the ammonia comment.

My arse is duly slapped...thermometer top of my To Do List!

So air movement's a big important factor???!!! Is it more important than temp...if get a fan, I'm sure the temp will drop as it'll push the warm air around the plants away and so maybe I'll need a heater....?

Scoobster

yea the temp will drop slightly with a fan, but i still doubt u'll need to worry about a heater, unless your house is well cold - like under 15c.
get a min max thermometer mate, before you even think about a heater.

[Mr_Bimble]

If your growing 1M fromt he front door your asking for trouble.

If there is a cat-flap at the bottom - cut a vent in the top and invest in a carbon filter and inline fan and have the outlet blow through the top vent - that will suck fresh air in the bottom and get rid of the plant smell, also consider fitting draft-excluder tape round the door to preven light & smell leaks.

[scoobster]

Thanks guys

Just got a normal thermometer at the mo, but thank God I did...it was 30C in there. So bought a fan for £8, £24 less then I was planning to spend on the heater :-) It's averaging around 24-28C with the fan now, will try and buy a gauge thermo tomorrow.

DJ - I laughed so much b/cos I should have thought of that (I know my chemistry but unfortunately not my biology!) Luckily the cat tray is covered and has good litter, there's a small vent at the top for a carbon filter which is now covered up with kitchen towels. Love the little vomiting icon so double lol ;-)

Now the smell and extraction thing....there's so much advice on this. I'm sure I smelt them today so sure that gonna be a prob. What exactly is an "inline fan"??? I got soooo confused by all the extraction/ventilation advice....

From what I can work out, an inline fan is like a bathroom extraction fan but more powerful, and it's got a tube shaped entrance for ducting. Which means I can connect a duct to a carbon filter which will also have a tube shaped fitting??? What sort of budget will I need? I've found this, which will hopefully help with my crap DIY skills, do you think I could then rest the inline fan and filter somewhere rather than have to fit them???

http://www.rselectricalsupplies.co.uk/ventilation-supplies/inline-fan-kits/inline-fan-kit-4%22-suitable-for-loft-installation/?utm_source=Googleshopping&utm_medium=Freelistings&utm_campaign=Ventilation+Supplies

Thanks again :-)

Scoobster

[Just chillin]

yea the temp will drop slightly with a fan

I've got a slightly different problem, I've got a similar setup with cfl etc but I also have an extractor fan and and filter.
The filter sits on top of the reflector to catch the rising heat.
With just the extractor fan going I have temps of 27-28C but if I turn on a fan to blow on the plants, the temp rises to about 34C. It doesn't feel too warm but that's what the thermo says.

[dj #]

Fan & Filter packages @ Greens Horticulture (http://www.greenshorticulture.co.uk/Grow-room-Products-20/-In-Line-Fans-Fan-Filter-Deals-108/)
they're a really good online shop and the only one officially recommended by this site
all discretely wrapped and well packaged too ;)

[scoobster]

I've got a slightly different problem, I've got a similar setup with cfl etc but I also have an extractor fan and and filter.
The filter sits on top of the reflector to catch the rising heat.
With just the extractor fan going I have temps of 27-28C but if I turn on a fan to blow on the plants, the temp rises to about 34C. It doesn't feel too warm but that's what the thermo says.

Yippee, I get to offer some (hopefully useful) advice ;-) I don't know my biology but I do know my physics and am starting to use it! :pimped:

As I see it, there are 2 scenarios:

1. The fan's motor is so powerful and inefficient, the heat it's giving off is raising the temperature by 6C. I'd say that's highly unlikely, in a completely 100% airtight box of say 1m cubed, it'd raise it by say 0.5C (a wild guess) but no way by that much...

2. The thermometer is in a cool corner of the space (perhaps very near where the air is extracted but much lower???). When the fan's on, the air's evenly circulated - all the hotter and colder mixed in - the average air temp by the thermometer is actually much higher. I'd say this much more likely....I wouldn't let the "feel factor" influence you, I thought it was 22C in mine but it was nearer 30C!!! How often do you need to water them? I'm every 2 days at the mo and I think it's the higher-than-I-thought temp. Got a new min max therm today with an outdoor bit which I've put up higher so I can see the true temp at different places...

You say you have a similar set up so do you mean an airing cupboard? Are there any gaps at the back and front of the shelves? I have some small gaps so some of the air is pushed away to the top of the cupboard, so my temps dropped.

And maybe the extractor fan is in the wrong place???....kind of like blowing cold air onto a car roof rather than into the car, it would cool the metal roof a tad which will help, but it'd be better into the space where the hot air is to make a difference.

Hope that makes some sense and let me know how you get on!

Scoobster

[scoobster]

PS I forgot to say, I have the door to mine open about 15 mins a day and every now and then pick up the fan and blow all the air around the whole cupboard to freshen it....that'd be an easy way to lower the temp if it's too high

[Just chillin]

Scoobster, I welcome any advice and thanks for taking the time.

Yes it is in a cupboard and it's not completely airtight.
I'll get some pics up as soon as I can.
I have cut a hole near the bottom to let cool air in but I also think you're right about the fan just mixing all the air up.
Do I actually need to blow air on the plants?
Or is it enough to extract the warm air and let the extractor fan suck air in from the bottom?
I don't leave the door open but can't help looking in there several times a day :)
I just repotted one today, about 2 weeks old and noticed it has slightly yellow lower leaves and the top leaves have curled slightly on the edges, which if I understand correctly could be heat stress.
Another option I have is to raise the light but it's already a good 10cm away from the plants.
I guess that's what a first grow is all about, learning what plants like and making the adjustments, but if I don't get a smoke soon I may have to turn to alcohol :beerbelly:

[scoobster]

Hi JC

I reckon the hole at the bottom will help by bringing in colder air. My understanding is that the extract/ventilation is to bring in oxygen and get rid of the co2, as well as reducing the temp. The fan is to blow that fresh air on the leaves, as DJ put it they ain't got lungs! Unless there's a breeze in there now that more air's coming in, you do need the fan and it should help reduce the temp a bit as it will prob help some more air either come up from the lower bit or push the hot air up.

That said, I'm just guessing from my own short experience and trying to think it through!

I have yellow leaves too, I think it's cos the soil was too dry, I've repotted mine today and am gonna give them a good drenching this evening.

No what you mean about the alcohol, I really wanted mine in time for Xmas but don't think it's gonna happen now :-( Might invest in some quick growing autoflowers, then chuck some in the top oven when the turkey's cooking!

[scoobster]

An update...

so glad I bought a good thermometer, the temp is much higher then I thought at a higher level, the max temp went to over 34C at soil level.

I'd had the fan running 15 mins per hour, now adjusted to about 45/60.

They're now repotted in their last home, hopefully they're (at last) in a perfect environment although stressed.

Latest pics: