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wert
14-11-09, 01:19 PM
just a quick post to try and explain a bit about breeding and what to expect from crosses
phenotype=outward appearence of a trait
genotype=genetic makeup of a plant or organism
each parent contributes 1 factor of each trait shown in the offspring
the parents are P1
the seeds from P1 parents are F1[first filial]
F2 second generation[2nd filial]
dominant traits are traits which apear in F1 generation in crosses between true breeding strains
recessive are traits that skip a generation
traits not shown in the F1 reappear in the F2 in about 25% of the off spring
some factors can be hidden or unexpressed[is that a word] these are recessive
each gene carrys 2 alleles
cannabis carrys 2 allelles for each trait and the off spring will take one each from both parents.
homozygous is when the 2 alleles are the same
heterozygous when the 2 alleles are diferent,in this instant the dominant allele will show.
when you cross 2 hybrids it is less consistent as to what they will produce and more dificult to stabilise the trait you may like.this is done by backcrossing off spring showing this trait with the original parent. the more times you back cross further generations the less chance there is of a recessive gene showing.i think that most breeders say that it takes 7-8 back crossings to stabilise a trait in hybrids.
wert

Ooh
14-11-09, 10:18 PM
If any of what I posted in: https://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?t=15867 is of any use then either copy and paste it or ask me and I will add it on the end of this thread.

gbcheeky
30-04-10, 08:07 PM
absolutely wonderful post Wert! made things seem so much clearer and least i know what to expect from breeding, which is good as before reading this i didn't know to much about what to expect from a f1's seeds, least i know why the seeds from proper breeders cost the price they do, it aint as easy as i thought to just let the plants have sex and get lovely mix of the plants in the seeds, ah well DEF still gonna breed and just cross my fingers and hope for the best! thanks a lot Wert.

BomShiva
25-06-10, 03:11 AM
Ive found from BX3 to BX5 pretty much gets you there but then thats using IBL parents at the start, id never use non IBL parents for breeding, unless the female was amazing and still id use a IBL male, its worth pointing out that the first cross P1/F1 will exhibit 75% of the females genotype even tho it holds 50/50% of each parent in that cross, its only in the f2 line you would see a strong resemblance to the male used in the p1 cross, and then only about 25% would exhibit the males genotype.

As Wert has said crossing a hybrid to a hybrid is gonna be like licourice allsorts when grown out.

Bom!

hyperlite
11-07-10, 05:40 PM
As Wert has said crossing a hybrid to a hybrid is gonna be like licourice allsorts when grown out.

?? why is that bom? as my limited understanding goes,the domanint parent will always pass its genes to the kids?
thats why as far as i know most top breeders use subissive males so to regulate a uniform set of seeds(genes)???

help me out? as youve just got my head spinning with trying to understand this?

wert
11-07-10, 05:52 PM
in heterozygous stock there is the possibility of 2 recessive genes combining .

hyperlite
11-07-10, 11:21 PM
in heterozygous stock there is the possibility of 2 recessive genes combining .

yes i know, i thought the thing to do is not to breed from heterozygous"Hh" stock? i thought the thing to do was to make sure your female is homozygous"HH" and the male to be heterozygous recessive"hh" so any cross is stable.
is that the right?
i always thought you should be trying to replacate a good mother and try to keep any traits of the father or grandpairents to a minimum? is that right?

wert
11-07-10, 11:47 PM
yes i know, i thought the thing to do is not to breed from heterozygous"Hh" stock? i thought the thing to do was to make sure your female is homozygous"HH" and the male to be heterozygous recessive"hh" so any cross is stable.
is that the right?it is always easier to work with strains that have been stabilised,this is not always doable as the seeds sold by some seedbanks are just f1 crosses. if you are working with a hybrid you will not know if it is hetero or homozygous
i always thought you should be trying to replacate a good mother and try to keep any traits of the father or grandparents to a minimum? is that right? you choose a male from the first cross and backcross with the p1 female this is done several times always to the original p1 female.

up2nogood
11-07-10, 11:58 PM
yuo certainly know how to breed wert..good post

hyperlite
12-07-10, 03:11 AM
thanks wert,but i think that to breed from heterozygous would be asking for trouble,no mater the backcrosses?
anyhow,we are arguing about how to skin a cat lol. il keep my seeds under raps for now lol,and will send out in a year or 2.for testing

wert
12-07-10, 10:21 AM
3 variations in the same batch of seeds of an unstable f1 cross
https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/SNC15676_Medium_.JPG

dekay
13-07-10, 01:13 AM
So if i back cross the black lemon male to black domina female original mother what would i be doing there, and would i need a male black domina to stabalize mine if it was any good, can u be just lucky with a cross or will it always be unstabel like family genes until u inbreed certain traits.

TheGreenMachine
13-07-10, 01:54 AM
Thanks for the info wert.
This is something (I was just saying in another thread) that I have been interested in for a while and something I am considering experimenting with.
Don't wanna run before I can walk, so as with growing, I'll read as much as I can before I start and work out where I'll find the room lol.

Cheers again!

wert
13-07-10, 09:33 AM
So if i back cross the black lemon male to black domina female original mother what would i be doing there, and would i need a male black domina to stabalize mine if it was any good, can u be just lucky with a cross or will it always be unstabel like family genes until u inbreed certain traits.
when breeding cannabis it is always going to be easier if you are working with stable breeding stock.if you cross a pure bred indica with a pure bred sativa that are from diferent gene pools your f1 offspring will exhibit the dominant gene from the cross and they will be uniform in how they grow,some will be homozygous and some heterozygous from the cross but all will show the dominant trait.
the next generation,f2, will have the possibility of 2 recessive genes meeting and a trait that was not presant in the f1's may appear in approx 25% of the offspring . if you use the original p1 parents of a cross of true breeding stock you will get uniform growth from the offspring. this is not the case when the home breeder takes for example 2 f1 white widow seeds and crosses them ,the resulting seeds will start to show traits that were recessive ,to stabilise the cross you need to choose the trait you are looking for and cross with the original p1 mother.this is done several times to breed in and stabilise the trait you desire and breed out the possibility of variation.
dekay i think you are useing hybrids to breed with which can throw up even more variations because of the possibility of recessivecombination even when you select stock that shows the trait you want they may both be heterozygous and throw your calculations way off.
yes you can be lucky but breeding is all about %.

katy
16-07-10, 07:48 PM
wow, you are so smart (for a stoner) lol

cannamancan
01-03-11, 07:53 PM
Quality thread wert mate , I just learnt something good and usefull about weed plants , winner double zero for linking me to this thread .

Mr ukthc
02-03-11, 07:16 PM
^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^^
Top thred wert.