View Full Version : What's Coco Coir?
cocogrower
10-01-11, 03:39 AM
I dont see many Coco threads so thought id share some info I've learnt using Coco over the years.
35232
Since Coco in an inert medium, It has no immediate nutrients available to it. You can effectively treat it like a Hydro medium once the roots are established. Seedlings are fine on tap water and then slowly work your way up with the nutrients to what the plant will handle.
You dont need to prep or pre-soak B'Cuzz Coco, Canna coco plus or Canna Natural coco, Just make sure if you come across any solid lumps of salt or clusters get rid of them. Solid bricks of coco will need pre-soaking.
Canna Coco plus has a water/ air ratio of 73% / 23%, It's very very hard to overwater an established plant.
A PH of 5.7-6.1 throughout the whole grow is advised with an EC of 1.2-1.5 in Veg and 1.8 in flowering (Can vary for heavy feeders) A PH and EC pen are essential for growing in Coco.
When using Coco in pots be prepared for more root growth in less time in comparison to Soil if conditions are good, This can make some plants in 6.5L pots of coco be quiet a bit larger than those in dirt.
Also when using pots its highly advisable to put around 1-2 inch of clay pebbles at the bottom of the pot for draining purposes as you never want your plants sat in water for long periods.
In my opinion 8-9 x 6.5L pots of coco under 1 600w in 1-1.2M SQ works well, Potted up 1.4L > 3.5L > 6.5L, Veg around 3-4 weeks.
When choosing Nutrients, Make sure its Coco specific. Hydro nutrients won't work well at all. As for the Brand.. I use Grower's Ark or Hesi, Both work well. I find any Seaweed extract to work well for root growth.
PK 13/14 is advisable when using Coco, Along with a bit of Boost if you choose.
Do Not run a wet-dry cycle with Coco, If hand-watering then water daily and be prepared to be giving a plant in full bloom 1-1.5L a day or more. Always water to at least a 15-20% runoff, If you suspect you have overfed the plants just flush with PH'd water and start at a lower feed.
Coco works great in Autopots and Flood and drain systems, I have used a mix of 70% coco 30% Pebbles in both and had excellent results.
Well thats about it, Any questions you have ask away! I'm not a coco Guru but I'll help if I can.
:thcleaf:
Azerbanphal
10-01-11, 04:03 AM
well some of above i disagree witrh - u CAN use hydro nutes but remeber they will have excessive P probably (P and K are within most coco substrates such as canna, bcuzz etc), however u may want to retard the N level (particularly with bcuzz substrate) - so if u get bcuzz coco I wouldnt get Hesi nutes since they have a fairly high N level anyway. Hesi nutes get q a lot of grief since a lot of the base elements they use are derived from organic media... for some reeason this means (for you and me) that they won't read eC wise with a truncheon/pen whatever.
As far as the rest... growers ark sounds good... so does ferro....
not sure i can be arsed tho since hesi is a 1 stage feed rather than 2 stage, and just gives the best results I've ever seen....
I might try Ferro next grow but I'm not holding my breath over it beating the hesi shit.
Azerbanphal
10-01-11, 04:06 AM
oh and btw i know what coco coir is mate.
You might want to look at some of the new Vitalink and Plagron coco substrates that have been bigged up recently...
I'm particularly interested in the vitalink coco since i rate them. The canna shit has been going downhill lately.. .and (although I havent suffered from them) I hear of a lot of fungus gnat outbreaks recently upon opening a bag of pro+....
cocogrower
10-01-11, 01:58 PM
well some of above i disagree witrh - u CAN use hydro nutes but remeber they will have excessive P probably (P and K are within most coco substrates such as canna, bcuzz etc),
.
Coco hogs Magnesium and Calcium, Using none coco-specific nutrients your plants will more than likly end up with a MG deficiency as extra MG is added to Coco feeds to supplement this.
Azerbanphal
10-01-11, 03:58 PM
Coco hogs Magnesium and Calcium, Using none coco-specific nutrients your plants will more than likly end up with a MG deficiency as extra MG is added to Coco feeds to supplement this.
Most nutes in coco give an mG def anyway so you should always have epsoms or a cal/mag up your sleeve...
It is a problem with coco, and its not just hogging as well its actual mG lockout when wet.
illearth67
10-01-11, 05:47 PM
well some of above i disagree witrh - u CAN use hydro nutes but remeber they will have excessive P probably (P and K are within most coco substrates such as canna, bcuzz etc), however u may want to retard the N level (particularly with bcuzz substrate) - so if u get bcuzz coco I wouldnt get Hesi nutes since they have a fairly high N level anyway. Hesi nutes get q a lot of grief since a lot of the base elements they use are derived from organic media... for some reeason this means (for you and me) that they won't read eC wise with a truncheon/pen whatever.
As far as the rest... growers ark sounds good... so does ferro....
not sure i can be arsed tho since hesi is a 1 stage feed rather than 2 stage, and just gives the best results I've ever seen....
I might try Ferro next grow but I'm not holding my breath over it beating the hesi shit.
Hi Azer I am planning my first coco grow now using Canna oco professional and I was going to use Canna Coco nutes too, but from what you say I think I will give the Hesi nutes a try instead.
I know that Hesi is a one part formula that I can use in both veg and bloom, but I wonder if you have any experience using the other Hesi products like Root Complex, Super Vit, Power Zyme and TNT Complex?
I would be grateful for any pointers on how and when to use these other products and if they are really necessary to get good results from my plants?
Any advice much appreciated mate, cheers.:)
cocogrower
10-01-11, 06:15 PM
Hi Azer I am planning my first coco grow now using Canna oco professional and I was going to use Canna Coco nutes too, but from what you say I think I will give the Hesi nutes a try instead.
I know that Hesi is a one part formula that I can use in both veg and bloom, but I wonder if you have any experience using the other Hesi products like Root Complex, Super Vit, Power Zyme and TNT Complex?
I would be grateful for any pointers on how and when to use these other products and if they are really necessary to get good results from my plants?
Any advice much appreciated mate, cheers.:)
Hesi coco nutrients has Organic Nitrogen (Urea) so will give you wrong EC readings.. It's quite pointless using an EC pen with Hesi coco. I have used Hesi root complex, Super vit & PK 13/14 and theyre good enough but me personally I believe all you need for a good crop is some Good base nutrients and some PK 13/14.
I wouldn't bother with the TNT Complex either, Excellent results can be had from Just using Hesi coco bloom thruout the whole grow.
These days I use Grower's Ark Coco nutrients as its quality is 2nd to 0 IMO. :)
Azerbanphal
10-01-11, 07:52 PM
I use the TNT for veg/flip period. It is the finest veg product I have ever used.
However he's right - it's not 100% necessary since the bloom works well in early stages too (q high N for a bloom product).
The Growers Ark stuff gets good reviews - its a UK product a lot of people are switching too - Ferro is also highly rated but they're both A/B products so a little more effort to use thatn the Hesi.
They're all decent tbh including the canna nutes.
The organic ingredients in Hesi do make ec measurement pointless as stated... however I have never found this a problem since I keep a note of amounts used and adjust accordingly.
As for the rest of the Hesi range, they have some highly thought of stuff like Supervit.
Never really used much except the TNT and bloom though so can't say whether theyre any good or not but I bet they're decent.
yoko2009
10-01-11, 08:48 PM
i used advanced nutes with coco and my plants suffered some serious damage but still got good yield, im back on canna now using full range and always had top results with no signs of any deficiany or nute burn and i never bother with an ec or ph pen. think ill be having a look at the hesi next though, always willing to keep trying different stuff
cocogrower
10-01-11, 11:43 PM
Most nutes in coco give an mG def anyway so you should always have epsoms or a cal/mag up your sleeve...
It is a problem with coco, and its not just hogging as well its actual mG lockout when wet.
This is true, Having used many different Coco nutrients theres only a couple I havn't had to supplement with CA and MG. Grower's Ark, Hesi and Ionic nutrients didn't need any supplements. I find Canna's nutrients pretty awful these days.. It was good stuff 7-8 years ago.. Gone downhill IMO.
am really interested in growing with coco, the only thing that keeps putting me off is that I heard is it needs watering everyday and I would be growing in standard 18L pots so I'd be having to water manually. If I happen to be away for 2 days, would the plant be stunted by this? I have done a lot of searching but can't really find how to feed. My understanding is mix nutes with water, but I don't know if I water until I see some run off, or if I water a certain amount, like say 1L. My last grow was with hempy bucket so I have a bit of experience on the hydro side. Also, does the mix need ec reading cos yoko states he never bothered with it, I would of course PH the mix before watering it.
cocogrower
11-01-11, 01:04 AM
am really interested in growing with coco, the only thing that keeps putting me off is that I heard is it needs watering everyday and I would be growing in standard 18L pots so I'd be having to water manually. If I happen to be away for 2 days, would the plant be stunted by this? I have done a lot of searching but can't really find how to feed. My understanding is mix nutes with water, but I don't know if I water until I see some run off, or if I water a certain amount, like say 1L. My last grow was with hempy bucket so I have a bit of experience on the hydro side. Also, does the mix need ec reading cos yoko states he never bothered with it, I would of course PH the mix before watering it.
If your using 18L pots then missing 1 days watering wont do much harm, If this did happen be sure to give more water than normal the following day. It's in smaller 5-10L pots that watering everyday is really important.
If your using Pots then water untill around 20% runoff comes out into saucer, Leave it for 15 minutes then remove the excess runoff, Monitoring the EC makes the grow run smoother but you can just start with a 1/4 strengh feed and work your way upto what the plant can handle.
Would puttin pebbles at the bottom benefit me at all. I was gonna go with canna coco coir and coco nutes. But after reading some of the above posts, i'm in two minds now.
illearth67
11-01-11, 02:23 AM
Would puttin pebbles at the bottom benefit me at all. I was gonna go with canna coco coir and coco nutes. But after reading some of the above posts, i'm in two minds now.
Yes Flygerian this is something that seems to divide coco growers right down the middle.
Can anyone clarify wether it is advisable to use a layer of pebbles at the bottom of the pot and if so why?
Good thing for me is I use clay pebbles in my wilma so I have plenty to spare if I do need them.
If I do use Hesi nutes I think I will use the TNT for veg and the coco for bloom as Azer suggests and maybe PK 13/14 but I won't bother with the other products this grow, although I might try them out next grow to see if I notice any difference in yields.
The only thing that slightly discourages me about the Hesi nutes is the difficulty in monitoring the EC, but then again I have enough hydro grows under my belt now to know what nute burn looks like so it shouldn't be a problem so long as I keep notes of my feed strength as Azer suggests.
Flygerian I think that 18 L pots is considered too big for a coco grow cos it takes much longer for the plants to become rootbound compared to soil, so unless you plan on a very long veg time using coco in those pots is just a waste but others may think differently.
While I'm on the subject I understand coco can be reused several times so has anyone tried this and does anyone have any tips on how to clean the coco between grows?
cocogrower
11-01-11, 03:42 AM
Yes Flygerian this is something that seems to divide coco growers right down the middle.
Can anyone clarify wether it is advisable to use a layer of pebbles at the bottom of the pot and if so why?
I do it purely for drainage, Plants in Pots being watered from the top tend to have mass Root growth at the bottom of the Pots, So having good airflow and drainage down there is good.
I've used 100% Coco before and not noticed any difference but just carried on using them anyway.
While I'm on the subject I understand coco can be reused several times so has anyone tried this and does anyone have any tips on how to clean the coco between grows?
Coco can be reused, Personally I dont bother. For what it costs I just replace it every grow. Canna coco contains a very high proportion of useful micro organisms, including Trichoderma , which combat root rot and other diseases and I think this wouldn't be as effective after 2-3 full grows.
Yes Flygerian this is something that seems to divide coco growers right down the middle.
Can anyone clarify wether it is advisable to use a layer of pebbles at the bottom of the pot and if so why?
Good thing for me is I use clay pebbles in my wilma so I have plenty to spare if I do need them.
If I do use Hesi nutes I think I will use the TNT for veg and the coco for bloom as Azer suggests and maybe PK 13/14 but I won't bother with the other products this grow, although I might try them out next grow to see if I notice any difference in yields.
The only thing that slightly discourages me about the Hesi nutes is the difficulty in monitoring the EC, but then again I have enough hydro grows under my belt now to know what nute burn looks like so it shouldn't be a problem so long as I keep notes of my feed strength as Azer suggests.
Flygerian I think that 18 L pots is considered too big for a coco grow cos it takes much longer for the plants to become rootbound compared to soil, so unless you plan on a very long veg time using coco in those pots is just a waste but others may think differently.
While I'm on the subject I understand coco can be reused several times so has anyone tried this and does anyone have any tips on how to clean the coco between grows?
Very good point! I did read that pot size DOESN'T increase your yield, it merely allows a longer veg without getting root bound, and generally, longer veg=more yield. What is an ideal pot size for 4-5 weeks veg?
Cocogrower, as a novice coco user (referring to myself), would you reccomend using the pebbles, and would they need scrubbing and soaking like they do with an oxypot prior to use? The variety of coco nutes is starting to stress me out TBH.
Azerbanphal
11-01-11, 12:54 PM
I agree with everything this cocogrower dude says btw - I think we use pretty much exactly the same methods tbh.
As for the pebbles I've used them at the bottom before - personally I don't bother any more - or with perlite or anything.
Since you're worried about having to water too often I wouldn't use them either if I was you since it would only drain the pots a bit quicker.
Pot size DOES effect yield / plant size and stretch but not as much as soil grows.
10 litre pots are ideal i find.
Shades Of Green
11-01-11, 01:21 PM
Just like to add if using Hydroton pebbles/lava rocks is to make sure they are Ph stable because if they are not when checking run off you won't have an accurate reading :)
jimmy recard
11-01-11, 05:49 PM
i'm just two weeks into flowering on my first coco grow, and it's the easiest grow i've ever had! watering everyday is ideal, but i have left them three with no noticable ill effects what-so-ever.
i've never checked ec, just go on ml/L working up from half strength. i only check PH with one of those little drip test kits, and adjust to about 6.
so much easier than compost, for me, it's just growing by numbers.
Azerbanphal
11-01-11, 06:06 PM
i'm just two weeks into flowering on my first coco grow, and it's the easiest grow i've ever had! watering everyday is ideal, but i have left them three with no noticable ill effects what-so-ever.
i've never checked ec, just go on ml/L working up from half strength. i only check PH with one of those little drip test kits, and adjust to about 6.
so much easier than compost, for me, it's just growing by numbers.
reason i use it and its so good for big yields.
pH is the only thing i really worry bout too.
illearth67
11-01-11, 11:19 PM
Hi guys thanks to everyone for all the info.
I have some plants I started in soil cos I didn't have any coco at the time.
They are seedlings only about 2 weeks old and are in small starter pots in multi purpose compost.
I want to transplant them into my coco soon and I'm wondering if I should just treat it like repotting into soil or is there anything else I should be aware of?
I was planning to put them in 6L pots to veg for about 4 weeks and then 10L pots for flower and I wonder if you guys think that plan is OK?
Any advice is most welcome, thanks.:)
Azerbanphal
12-01-11, 01:26 AM
yeah just pot em up...
Make the coco nice and fine and prime it with pH'd + tiny amount of root enzyme and just grow away :)
I personally never bother potting up... I start in coir or peat pots then simply plant them into my final 10 or 11 litre pots.
c ganjafarmer
15-01-11, 03:43 AM
i used advanced nutes with coco and my plants suffered some serious damage but still got good yield, im back on canna now using full range and always had top results with no signs of any deficiany or nute burn and i never bother with an ec or ph pen. think ill be having a look at the hesi next though, always willing to keep trying different stuff
what probs did you have with the advanced nutes with coco m8??
i use canna coco pro in a 4 pot Wilma and its the easiest way i have ever grown and i find canna A+B fine but thats just my opinion for what it's worth
Hi all ive been thinking of using coir, i like to use home made teas for feed though. I use a guano, mollasses, wormcast, and seaweed mix would this work with coir any known problems with it?
Azerbanphal
01-02-11, 11:22 PM
I think it's a nice idea but probably very difficult to nail successfully.
Coco is fairly pH and ec sensitive, and its not like adding a supplementary feed to a soil grow - you need to provide ALL the nutes in a fairly tailored manner (pH/ec wise).
Wolfcree
23-02-11, 02:48 AM
Nice thread guys!!!
As a coco grower myself was very interesting read, so thank you all ;) Especially all the info on nute's as I have only ever used ionic and because its so simple to use and i've always had good happy harvests i've never even thought of trying others lol, am going to have to check them out.
As for the other topics: I don't use pebbles, I do use perlite, i don't test ec, I do keep ph at around 6 and I don't bother potting them up anymore either, just straight from the wee plastic cups right into 10l pots...btw has anyone else noticed the difference a deep pot makes?? I had just 1 in my last few grows and the rest were standard, normal sized/shaped pots... the deep one always produced bigger buds and a bit more yield .... As i'm just about to start my 1st grow for almost 3 years I recently went out and bought the deepest pots i could find lol, just a pity they are empty atm though.
Thanks again!!
roareruk
01-03-11, 03:48 AM
ok i read somewhere to treat like a hydro system .... so when watering to you use water with nutes in every time ???
cocogrower
01-03-11, 06:44 AM
ok i read somewhere to treat like a hydro system .... so when watering to you use water with nutes in every time ???
Yeah It's a good idea to feed/water everyday in Coco, With an EC of 1.0-1.5 in Veg and 1.8-2.1 in flowering. If you feel you've overdone the nutrients then flushing for a day or 2 will fix it.
roareruk
01-03-11, 02:02 PM
cool thanks coco started very weak as there still seedlings in my eyes 1ml of ionic coco grow when i put the jiffy pellets into the canna coco natural ... and used only water the leaves seemed to crinkle i was advised this was due to me not buffereing the coco i flushed till i saw drainage then gave about the same amount again a day later and they where all fine and dandy .... i did read that not to wet to dry water them if that makes sense but ive just been watering every 2 or 3 days judging by pot weight this coco stuff really holds the water well and i worry that if i over water rot might set in somewhere .... just memories from school in horticulture when me and a mate where responsible for watering 2000 crasanthanums or whatever they where called and we drowned them not intentionally either
cocogrower
01-03-11, 04:56 PM
cool thanks coco started very weak as there still seedlings in my eyes 1ml of ionic coco grow when i put the jiffy pellets into the canna coco natural ... and used only water the leaves seemed to crinkle i was advised this was due to me not buffereing the coco i flushed till i saw drainage then gave about the same amount again a day later and they where all fine and dandy .... i did read that not to wet to dry water them if that makes sense but ive just been watering every 2 or 3 days judging by pot weight this coco stuff really holds the water well and i worry that if i over water rot might set in somewhere .... just memories from school in horticulture when me and a mate where responsible for watering 2000 crasanthanums or whatever they where called and we drowned them not intentionally either
Sounds good fella, Except Coco should really be watere'd every single day for best results... Dont let the Coco dry-out between waterings like Soil as this is harmful to the roots.. Coco can be treated just like Clay pebbles in a Hydro setup when it comes to watering.
The Lost Soul
01-03-11, 05:01 PM
So you need an ec pen when using Coco?
Cheers
cocogrower
01-03-11, 05:08 PM
So you need an ec pen when using Coco?
Cheers
You dont need one, But it makes life so much easier as you know what you're giving the plants.. Even a £20 EC pen of Fleabay will get you thru 3-4 grows.. If your considering Coco then I would defo buy an EC pen but its not a must like a PH pen is.
Shades Of Green
01-03-11, 05:12 PM
With Coco you can just gradually increase the feed a bit at a time without a Ec tester, if the plants yellow up the feed, nice and green then all good or if you over nute then just flush for a few days with water and start off with a low feed again. You only really need the Ph tester.
roareruk
01-03-11, 05:42 PM
all abit trial and error ive got a ec metre infact have two one bluelab and another cheap chinese one but dont bother using it as when i did a test run and mixed the nutes to recomended strength the reading was off the scale on both the blue lab and jap crap one ph is always a steady 6.2 .... the ionic recomends 7ml per litre ive started at 1ml to be on the safe side dont think ill bother with the 2 part canna stuff either too much faff on for my liking plus people say nutrients are photo sensitive or whatever it is .... hasnt anyone noticed they aint kept in the dark in hydro shops usually on display within the reach of the light from the display tents .... ionic is is black bottles was another thing that swayed me infact think this could be another thread question to start
cheers for your help guys its very much appreciated and always welcome
oh and also has anyone tryd coco in hempy buckets so many questions in my head need to sort them into order
illearth67
01-03-11, 06:08 PM
With Coco you can just gradually increase the feed a bit at a time without a Ec tester, if the plants yellow up the feed, nice and green then all good or if you over nute then just flush for a few days with water and start off with a low feed again. You only really need the Ph tester.
Yes I'm about halfway through my first coco grow using Canna Coco Pro and Hesi nutes and I'm very pleased with the results I'm getting so far.
Like you I don't bother measuring my EC anymore I just use the recommended dosage on the bottle and keep an eye out for deficiencies or nute burn but I haven't had any of those either I'm glad to say.
What I also found to my delight is that by the time I added nutes to my soft water this brings the pH down to 5.8 which is perfect for coco so I don't even need to adjust my pH anymore either!
To me growing in coco feels like growing in soil again except you can feed every day and you can't overwater, the growth rate is on a par with what I got using a wilma4 with clay pebbles.
I've yet to harvest a fully grown coco plant yet so I'll reserve final judgement until then but given the phenomenal growth rate I do expect great yields and coco gets my recommendation as being the simplest and hassle free type of hydro growing.:smokie:
cocogrower
01-03-11, 09:06 PM
Yes I'm about halfway through my first coco grow using Canna Coco Pro and Hesi nutes and I'm very pleased with the results I'm getting so far.
Like you I don't bother measuring my EC anymore I just use the recommended dosage on the bottle and keep an eye out for deficiencies or nute burn but I haven't had any of those either I'm glad to say.
With Hesi you dont need to measure the EC as it will give wrong readings because it contains organic Nitrogen (Urea)
illearth67
01-03-11, 09:34 PM
With Hesi you dont need to measure the EC as it will give wrong readings because it contains organic Nitrogen (Urea)
Yes Cocogrower Azerbanphal told me about this when I was asking him about different coco nutes and it put me off them at first but I can assure everyone it's not a disadvantage, you will save yourself the expense of buying an EC meter cos you won't need it.
So long as you have enough experience to recognise deficiencies and overfeeding then it's easy just to increase or decrease the dosage according to what you see.
I have been using Hesi from the start of this grow and I'm amazed at the results tbh, I've never grown healthier plants in my life and cos they are 1 part nutes using them couldn't be simpler.
I know you guys use other nutes like PK etc. but this grow I am going to use the Hesi coco from start to finish just to see the results and maybe experiment a bit more next grow.
Using the Canna coco and Hesi nutes is also a very cheap type of hydro growing cos I got 50L of coco and 1L of nutes for only £30!:stoned-smilie:
cocogrower
01-03-11, 09:49 PM
Yes Cocogrower Azerbanphal told me about this when I was asking him about different coco nutes and it put me off them at first but I can assure everyone it's not a disadvantage, you will save yourself the expense of buying an EC meter cos you won't need it.
So long as you have enough experience to recognise deficiencies and overfeeding then it's easy just to increase or decrease the dosage according to what you see.
I have been using Hesi from the start of this grow and I'm amazed at the results tbh, I've never grown healthier plants in my life and cos they are 1 part nutes using them couldn't be simpler.
I know you guys use other nutes like PK etc. but this grow I am going to use the Hesi coco from start to finish just to see the results and maybe experiment a bit more next grow.
Using the Canna coco and Hesi nutes is also a very cheap type of hydro growing cos I got 50L of coco and 1L of nutes for only £30!:stoned-smilie:
I hope your first grow with Hesi is a good 'un, I used Hesi coco nutrients for about 3 years, I thought it to be the best coco nutrient by far for a long while untill I switched Grower's Ark Coco (A&B). Growth is amazing.. I think the taste of the bud is a bit better too as I found Hesi coco bloom to be a tad heavy on Nitrogen, Which meant backing the feed off a little towards the mid-end of flowering and compensating with extra added PK, The excessive Nitrogen tended to prolong flowering a little too.
spidermite
04-04-11, 05:54 PM
hi peeps, switched to coco bales last grow, use hesi nutes and grow 12-12 from seed.......loving it.
For my first coco grow I used Ionic Hydro grow,Ionic Hydro bloom,bloombastic,hammerhead,and black treacle,throughout the grow I had ZERO problems!This time round Ive been using Canna Terra Vega and treacle for the veg,and for flower AN Bloom,Hammerhead,Bloombastic,Treacle,and will try Overdrive this time also.
I only used the EC pen when I put the girls on to flower,never had any need during veg,and could prolly have done the entire grow with no PH pen,or EC pen,the resulting weed was one of the most potent smokes Ive had in my life.
Ive been using 15ltr pots for my coco grows but will be trying a couple of girls in 10ltr pots next grow for comparison,Ive always put a layer of pebbles at the bottom of pots out of habit.
Azerbanphal
04-04-11, 09:56 PM
sounds like overkill to me.
Think I'll stick to my normal nutes + root stim early on + pk13/14 or similar later on.
Having said that I've just ordered some Canadian Xpress coco bloom I saw online on a good offer. Heard its decent stuff.
illearth67
21-04-11, 04:34 PM
Hi guys I'm just coming towards the end of my first coco grow now and getting some really amazing results.
I grew this fantastic Swiss Bliss Sativa from seed in Canna coco pro using Hesi nutes and she's turned into a real monster so just thought I'd share with you.
I'd just like to say thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread it's helped me get the hang of coco growing and especially Azerbanphal and Cocogrower.
Anyway I can now say for sure that coco is at least as good as the other types of hydro growing I've tried except it's much easier and cheaper to get great results.
I highly recommend using coco to other hydro growers and also soil growers who may want to give coco a try, I guarantee you won't be disappointed.
https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/swiss_bliss_coco.JPG
Azerbanphal
22-04-11, 12:11 AM
That looks fantastic mate!! Almost all bud basically.
Well done mate.... and you're right. Coco is easy and gives great results. Easy to sit back and take it easy, but also that level of "nutrient control" so that you can really push it and see how much the plants can take :)
illearth67
22-04-11, 01:09 AM
That looks fantastic mate!! Almost all bud basically.
Well done mate.... and you're right. Coco is easy and gives great results. Easy to sit back and take it easy, but also that level of "nutrient control" so that you can really push it and see how much the plants can take :)
Thanks alot Azer priase from a coco expert like you is most encouraging and your advice earlier was indispensable.:)
Yes Azer what I must emphasise to everyone is how straightforward coco growing is compared to other types of hydro, there's no need for the constant management needed when using oxypots or wilmas for example.
I fully endorse what you were saying about the quality of the Hesi nutes too and I'll defo be sticking with those for the forseeable future, I didn't experience any problems during this grow.
I grew this plant using only basic Hesi coco nutes for both veg and flower and added PK 13/14 for 1 week in week 6 of flower.
I'll be ready to start flushing her in a few days and she should be ready for the chop early next month so if she keeps fattening up I may enter her for next month's POTM.
Thanks again for all the help and encouragement Azer.:mr:
jenussa
29-04-11, 08:03 AM
CocoCoir is a natural fiber extracted from the husk of coconut and it is strongly recommended substitute for sphagnum moss because it is free of bacteria and fungal spores, and produces good results without the environmental damage caused by peat mining.
Photosynthesis
17-06-11, 12:15 AM
Yes Flygerian this is something that seems to divide coco growers right down the middle.
Can anyone clarify wether it is advisable to use a layer of pebbles at the bottom of the pot and if so why?
Good thing for me is I use clay pebbles in my wilma so I have plenty to spare if I do need them.
If I do use Hesi nutes I think I will use the TNT for veg and the coco for bloom as Azer suggests and maybe PK 13/14 but I won't bother with the other products this grow, although I might try them out next grow to see if I notice any difference in yields.
The only thing that slightly discourages me about the Hesi nutes is the difficulty in monitoring the EC, but then again I have enough hydro grows under my belt now to know what nute burn looks like so it shouldn't be a problem so long as I keep notes of my feed strength as Azer suggests.
Flygerian I think that 18 L pots is considered too big for a coco grow cos it takes much longer for the plants to become rootbound compared to soil, so unless you plan on a very long veg time using coco in those pots is just a waste but others may think differently.
While I'm on the subject I understand coco can be reused several times so has anyone tried this and does anyone have any tips on how to clean the coco between grows?
people put a layer of clay pebbles at bottom of coco coz coco gets too wet at bottom of pot,
but this layer is a perfect place for thrips, fungus gnats etc to thrive.
i mix 10-15% pebbles through the coco,
use enzymes to clean coco. IF U MUST!
just use fresh 2 b safe m8.
ashpack
26-06-11, 05:06 PM
Very Handy thread :)
Im growing in Coco Plus. ive got pebbles at the bottom of all pots. 4 have coco and 4 coco pebble mix all the way through (i ran out of coco) Im using the 8 pot wilma i got Coco A+B and PK 13/14 for later on will see how it goes :D
Ive started buying the bales of coco myself from fertile fibre(the price is unbeatable,and its pre-rinsed of any salts),bought myself 3x 65ltr bales inc delivery for a couple of quid more if not the same price as buying a 50ltr bag,well worth the extra time to prepare it!!
Switched back to my Ionic nutes,I get bigger,healthier plants with larger yields than I did using Advanced nutes(ionics alot cheaper too lol 5ltrs of hydro bloom=£22.50 delivered!)
smokin1
08-07-11, 10:51 PM
wow what a read , i am so sold this coco + hydro, infact i might just hand feed,
great thread people, brillant .
so the big qestion is, if you where to use a hydro system, which would you say would be more suited to coco ?
looking at the bubbler systems or wilma ?
cocogrower
08-07-11, 10:57 PM
I personally think the best results are to be had hand-watering, Most systems will work well but I feel your in more control hand-watering.
Any form of Flood & drain system, Autopots & Airpots will work.
smokin1
08-07-11, 11:11 PM
I personally think the best results are to be had hand-watering, Most systems will work well but I feel your in more control hand-watering.
Any form of Flood & drain system, Autopots & Airpots will work.
yeah i understand what your saying, being more hands on, you can work with the nutrients more, and feel more involed ;)
just a bit busy well very busy at tho mo, so wouldn't want to miss a watering/feed, so a hydro+timer would be best at this point in time ;)
thanks for the reply matey,
after reading all the thread, I'm sold on coco for sure,
just a little question,
where would be, or is the best coco to buy ? is there better coco to others ? as like soil ?
again thank's for the reply ;)
illearth67
08-07-11, 11:14 PM
I personally think the best results are to be had hand-watering, Most systems will work well but I feel your in more control hand-watering.
Any form of Flood & drain system, Autopots & Airpots will work.
I agree with coco grower. One of the reasons I moved over to coco is precisely because it allows me the control of hand watering.
With most other hydro mediums a reservoir of some sort is required and this greatly complicates the grow cos it has to be constantly monitored and adjusted.
So if you are only growing a few percy plants then you'll find hand watering will make life much easier for you.
illearth67
08-07-11, 11:16 PM
yeah i understand what your saying, being more hands on, you can work with the nutrients more, and feel more involed ;)
just a bit busy well very busy at tho mo, so wouldn't want to miss a watering/feed, so a hydro+timer would be best at this point in time ;)
thanks for the reply matey,
after reading all the thread, I'm sold on coco for sure,
just a little question,
where would be, or is the best coco to buy ? is there better coco to others ? as like soil ?
again thank's for the reply ;)
I strongly recommend canna coco pro mate I get amazing results every time and never have any plant problems.
cocogrower
08-07-11, 11:22 PM
just a little question,
where would be, or is the best coco to buy ? is there better coco to others ? as like soil ?
Canna Coco plus is the most widely used in the UK, It's decent stuff. I tried some Plant Magic Coco not to long ago and to me it seemed identical to Canna coco plus but a couple quid more.
All local hydro shops will have canna coco or its widely available online mate.
smokin1
08-07-11, 11:42 PM
I agree with coco grower. One of the reasons I moved over to coco is precisely because it allows me the control of hand watering.
With most other hydro mediums a reservoir of some sort is required and this greatly complicates the grow cos it has to be constantly monitored and adjusted.
So if you are only growing a few percy plants then you'll find hand watering will make life much easier for you.
yeah the more i read about hydro the more complex it is, , as the PH/nutrients can jump up and down, so need to be checked more often,
so hand watering once a day, ''morning'' lights on it will be matey,
thanks for the heads up/reply/info
smokin1
08-07-11, 11:51 PM
Canna Coco plus is the most widely used in the UK, It's decent stuff. I tried some Plant Magic Coco not to long ago and to me it seemed identical to Canna coco plus but a couple quid more.
All local hydro shops will have canna coco or its widely available online mate.
good man thank you , coco plus it is then ;)
in germantion/ propagating what would you say its best growing media ?
Canna Coco or
Jiffy 7C Coco Coir Plugs or
Jiffy Coco-Blocks
s for the helpful reply's mate, i'll stop picking your brains and start reading more now haha
thank's again ;)
You don't have to feed them everyday mate,one of the perks of coco is it holds 8x its weight in water.I leave my girls for 2days between feeds,could easily go 3days except for my Critical she needs it every 2days.
Ive used Plagron Gold coco-coir,atapi coco-coir,and am now trying out bales of coco-coir,the bales work out a hell of alot cheaper,and I can compare the grows,I really doubt that there will be that much difference between the different brands to affect final yields of a crop,theres alot more involved.
smokin1
09-07-11, 12:13 AM
You don't have to feed them everyday mate,one of the perks of coco is it holds 8x its weight in water.I leave my girls for 2days between feeds,could easily go 3days except for my Critical she needs it every 2days.
Ive used Plagron Gold coco-coir,atapi coco-coir,and am now trying out bales of coco-coir,the bales work out a hell of alot cheaper,and I can compare the grows,I really doubt that there will be that much difference between the different brands to affect final yields of a crop,theres alot more involved.
thank's for the reply/info, will 100% check out every thing , before i buy it, , as i am a massive believer in buying once ;)
and from what i have read coco is what i am after ;) just if need be, if it can handle 1/2 days after the last feed, then this is 1000000% what iv been looking for :) happy days.
thanks again
cocogrower
09-07-11, 12:15 AM
good man thank you , coco plus it is then ;)
in germantion/ propagating what would you say its best growing media ?
Canna Coco or
Jiffy 7C Coco Coir Plugs or
Jiffy Coco-Blocks
s for the helpful reply's mate, i'll stop picking your brains and start reading more now haha
thank's again ;)
This is down to you really mate. I just give the Coco a good watering in then pop the seed in about an inch down and cover it. Within 24-48 hrs they should show themselves, Some might take a little longer.
You don't have to feed them everyday mate,.
I agree, You dont have to feed everyday in Coco, Especially in Veg. Come flowering feeding daily will give best results though, When I tried feeding every other day and every 3rd day in flowering (Even in big 11-15L pots) the yield was still down a good 25-30% in comparison to when feeding daily.
How did you rate the Plagron Coco mate?
illearth67
09-07-11, 12:39 AM
This is down to you really mate. I just give the Coco a good watering in then pop the seed in about an inch down and cover it. Within 24-48 hrs they should show themselves, Some might take a little longer.
I agree, You dont have to feed everyday in Coco, Especially in Veg. Come flowering feeding daily will give best results though, When I tried feeding every other day and every 3rd day in flowering (Even in big 11-15L pots) the yield was still down a good 25-30% in comparison to when feeding daily.
How did you rate the Plagron Coco mate?
Listen to cocogrower guys for best results you should water/feed every day in coco cos your plants will grow faster.
You can't overwater in coco so provided your feed strength is correct you can't harm your plants.
If you don't take full advantage of the benefits of coco then you might as well go back to using soil imo.
smokin1
09-07-11, 08:15 AM
This is down to you really mate. I just give the Coco a good watering in then pop the seed in about an inch down and cover it. Within 24-48 hrs they should show themselves, Some might take a little longer.
I agree, You dont have to feed everyday in Coco, Especially in Veg. Come flowering feeding daily will give best results though, When I tried feeding every other day and every 3rd day in flowering (Even in big 11-15L pots) the yield was still down a good 25-30% in comparison to when feeding daily.
How did you rate the Plagron Coco mate?
again coco grower matey, ou been a big help, going to go to my local B&Q see what coco they sell ;)
can not wait to get this up and running now :)
thank's again buddy :stoned-smilie:
Azerbanphal
09-07-11, 09:00 AM
You won't find any proper coco at B&Q mate, you'll have to go to a hydro shop or order online.
The Plagron was good to work with,it came ready mixed with clay pebbles though so to me price wise a bit of a rip-off.
Yieldwise I can honestly say that so far brand names=nothing to plants,I just pulled 2 1/2oz from a Mataro blue that had 3weeks veg under a CFL before going 12/12 in my coco from bales.
Don't you find that RH goes skyhigh if you feed them everyday in flower?
The problem I find with Nutes,Mediums,and plant strains info is that 99.9% of people stick to what they have been shown,and people don't like change.I have 5 mates that all grow,4 were all shown how to grow by the 1guy,he learned to grow about 35years ago and taught 4of my mates his old school tactics for growing,they are now locked into the same way of growing and are too scared to try other things for fear of loosing out on yield!
I on the other hand taught myself through forums,trial and error(lots of error lol),I done maybe 6soil grows in my life before I heard about coco and started trying it out,even tried DWC with very bad results(an entire grow that left me weedless for months lol).
cocogrower
10-07-11, 07:19 PM
Don't you find that RH goes skyhigh if you feed them everyday in flower?
Yeah it does bump the RH up a tad but if you have good airflow it shouldnt be a problem, Especially this time of year with the excess heat, RH is relative to temp.
I love trying new stuff too mate, Although do tend to stick to the 1 medium (Canna coco plus) I do want to try Plagron coco though and maybe Atami Coco.. How did you rate the Atami?
I've been using Grower's Ark coco nutrients for about the last year, Really good quality stuff, its ran out so now I'm using Ionic coco which i think is really good value for money and decent quality.
I've ordered some Plagron cocos (a&b) so gonna give that a go when it arrives (its taking forever!)
Will get round to ordering some more Hesi coco too at some point, I like a good mix to choose from. :D
The Atami coco was pretty much the same as the Plagron(minus the pebbles).
All the coco-coir Ive used so far has really not made any difference in yield to be honest mate,Ive found more difference in pot size,and lumens so far!
I use Ionic hydro myself mate,used it in soil,dwc,and coco with great results for the money,Ive never tried the Ionic Boost though,guess I should try it out at some point could save some more money.
Azerbanphal
12-07-11, 11:50 AM
You should probably try the ionic coco nutes next time - they have better ratios for coco and cost the same £ as the hydro nutes - prolly get even better results :)
As for bales of coco.... yes it is a bit cheaper - but not really that much if you're a small scale grower like me. The best bales are the ikon or bionova ones and theyre like £2 for 10/11 litres. A sack of canna or bcuzz costs bout a tenner (40 litres). So the saving isn't that great.... the cheaper bails are usually really salty and coarse so require a fair amount of soaking. I'm too lazy for that for the sake of a couple quid.
I'm going back to bcuzz coco next - price has dropped (less than a tenner a sack) and the light amount of nutes they impregnate it with means no feed is required for a week or 2 bringing costs down even more.
I get my bales at £18.50 delivered for 3x65ltr bales of pre-rinsed coco,all I have to do is soak it,and drain it,I add some cannazym,some formulex,and some Treacle.
For me bales work alot cheaper,thats the same as 3xbags of coco-coir for the price of 1+delivery.
I'll prolly buy Ionic Coco nutes next time I need any,I always buy the 5ltr bottles cos I can get a hold of them for £21-£22 delivered.
hydrobudz
24-07-11, 10:28 PM
coco all the way
jenussa
27-07-11, 03:30 PM
Since ancient times, the coconut tree has been called the "Tree of Life" for its uncanny (nearly miraculous) healing properties and usefulness. A study of the coconut tree reveals an almost supernatural evolution to become one of the most useful species of plant life known to man.
The anomaly of medium chain fatty acids, lauric acid in particular, as well as anti-microbial, anti-bacterial, and anti-fungal ingredients in the coconut fruit itself have made for an unusual but incredibly potent immune system booster in humans. Coconut oil has been used by Pacific Islanders and Asian cultures to effectively treat everything from skin conditions like eczema and psoriasis to the common flu virus, hepatitis C and the measles.
The coir from coconuts (the brown fibers that surround the outside of the shell of the nut which, surprisingly, are found to be swarming with all the beneficial nutrients found in the fruit itself) has been used for making brooms, rope, and bindings to doormats, fishnets and even frames for housing.
The famous explorer Marco Polo even used coco coir to bind together planks for ship building.
Recently, it's been discovered that coco coir is an incredible growing medium with a near perfect pH for hydroponic growing!
robinhood
09-09-11, 07:41 PM
If you have airpots with coco and have pebbles at bottom so roots well away from run-off you can jus leave run off there mop it up whenever. Makes life easier...
bodyplan
10-09-11, 04:54 PM
First of all,this thread got great info about coco grow. illearth67 suggested I should try coco so after some reading I got me some questions and I would really appreciate the help.
1.Why do I need to water my plants every day?
2.Do I feed my plants every time I water or do I I do it like in soil(plain water-nuts-plain water-nuts...)
3.why in coco you can't over-water your plants
4. I am going to use HESI nuts, what are the specific nuts names I need for my entire grow?
illearth67
10-09-11, 07:52 PM
First of all,this thread got great info about coco grow. illearth67 suggested I should try coco so after some reading I got me some questions and I would really appreciate the help.
1.Why do I need to water my plants every day?
2.Do I feed my plants every time I water or do I I do it like in soil(plain water-nuts-plain water-nuts...)
3.why in coco you can't over-water your plants
4. I am going to use HESI nuts, what are the specific nuts names I need for my entire grow?
OK bodyplan cocogrower is offline just now so I'll do my best to answer your questions.
1) You do not need to water your plants every day but because you cannot over water in coco it makes sense to water/feed them every day because they will grow faster than a plant that is watered every second day for example. I can confirm this to be true from my own experience.
2) Yes you should feed/water your plants every day for the reasons I stated above. There is no need for a feed-water-feed-water schedule as long as your nute strength is correct.
3) It is very difficult to over water your plants in coco because the sponge like structure of the coco means that it always maintains a constant ratio of air/water of 25%/75% and this means you can not drown the roots as you would in soil.
4) I've sent you a PM with the link to the Hesi website showing all the different nutes they have but the accepted way to use them is to use TNT Complex for veg and Hesi Coco Bloom for flower.
robinhood
10-09-11, 08:52 PM
Is it true Coco is no good for mothers as it locks out particular nutes after few months? Was thinking autopot & coco for mother?
bodyplan
10-09-11, 09:04 PM
Thanks illearth67,glad to see you here.
thanks for all the info,as always it's very useful.
I wrote you a PM but I will ask here 2(for more input).
In the chart in your link I can see that " TNT complex" is used only in the first 2 weeks and that on the bottle is written:for soil(why is that?).
In the link there is no "coco bloom" only "coco" that is used for veg+flower time I also see that for bloom they use the pk 13/14
So I would really be happy with some clarification mate.
Also wanted to ask, the guys at my hydroshop sell coco coir with perlite (50%/50%) how does is sounds?
robinhood
10-09-11, 09:06 PM
Hesi has a set of nutes for coco. See greens horticulture website for exact contents. TNT for veg. Coco bloom for flower. They also have powerzyme and pk 13-14 which are helpful in veg and flw I believe.
bodyplan
10-09-11, 09:15 PM
Hesi has a set of nutes for coco. See greens horticulture website for exact contents. TNT for veg. Coco bloom for flower. They also have powerzyme and pk 13-14 which are helpful in veg and flw I believe.
So whats the point of the HESI coco grow chart?
*and as I wrote before I don't see any "HESI coco bloom" item only "HESI coco" item.
robinhood
10-09-11, 09:17 PM
Not sure how that contradicts the chart?
See here: http://www.greenshorticulture.co.uk/Plant-Nutrition-90/Hesi-Products-231/Hesi-Coco-181.asp
illearth67
10-09-11, 09:24 PM
Not sure how that contradicts the chart?
See here: http://www.greenshorticulture.co.uk/Plant-Nutrition-90/Hesi-Products-231/Hesi-Coco-181.asp
Hi guys here's a copy of a PM I just sent to bodyplan explaining all this as best I can and also a photo of the two different types of Hesi coco
hi mate yes i know it can be confusing so let me explain. Some of the hesi nutrients like TNT complex and PK 13/14 can be used in both hydroponic and soil grows while others are specifically made for use with coco only.
TNYT complex is designed to get good root growth in the early stages of plant growth so after the first few weeks you should switch over to Hesi coco for veg and flower then during flower switch over to Hesi coco for flowering plants only you can see the two types in the photo below so be sure to order the correct type for the stage of growth your plants are in.
https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/2_types_of_hesi_coco.JPG
robinhood
10-09-11, 09:56 PM
Anybody used coco for mother plants for more than a few months? Went well?
illearth67
10-09-11, 10:01 PM
Anybody used coco for mother plants for more than a few months? Went well?
I have a mother plant in coco with hesi nutes been vegging for 4 months with no ill effects so I don't think there's any truth in that rumour.
robinhood
10-09-11, 10:03 PM
Thanks Illearth. Cheers
bodyplan
10-09-11, 11:18 PM
few more questions :)
I got my answer about feeding and I will feed my plants every time I water,me question is why you can't over feed when you use coco coir?
I got a pH meter and know it is important because correct pH will allow the plant to eat the nuts but what is the part EC plays in hydro and do I have to adjust it 2(if so any recommendation on EC meter?)
illearth67
11-09-11, 09:36 PM
few more questions :)
I got my answer about feeding and I will feed my plants every time I water,me question is why you can't over feed when you use coco coir?
I got a pH meter and know it is important because correct pH will allow the plant to eat the nuts but what is the part EC plays in hydro and do I have to adjust it 2(if so any recommendation on EC meter?)
Hi bodyplan if you read the thread carefully you'll see that no one has claimed you can't over feed your plants in coco.
I did say that you can't over water in coco and that is true however if you attempt to feed your plants every day with too much nutes then they will get nutrrient burn the same as in any other type of growing.
I use the Hesi nutes at the recommended doses on the bottle and my plants have never suffered from nutrient burn so I suggest you do the same.
For most types of hydroponic growing both EC and pH meters are necessary but since Hesi nutes contain organic Nitrogen that does not register on an EC meter so there is no point in using one and you will only need a pH meter.
The EC stands for Electrical Conductivity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity) and this is a measure of the nutrient strength of hydroponic feeds you needn't be concerned with it for coco growing with Hesi nutes.
Read this description:
Hesi Coco has been stabilized thanks to complex-binding substances and it is free of unnecessary ballast. Hesi Coco contains both organic and mineral nitrogen. All trace elements have been stabilized in protecting complexes and have been enriched with vitamins and other natural elements both for the growth and the flowering. This way, a perfect balance is created in the system and a fast build up of a healthy micro-flora is achieved. It is possible that the EC of Hesi Coco is somewhat lower than other coco supplements because no salts have been added, since these would only raise the EC and would be of no nutritional value to the plant (ballast). Maximum dose of 50ml/10 ltr.
bodyplan
11-09-11, 10:31 PM
illearth67 thanks for the EC clarification.
I know that no one told me that you can't get nut burn when using coco.
my question is why you can feed every time you water(every day) when using coco and the nuts by the chart and you won't get any nut burn but when using soil you don't water with nuts every time and also you don't water every day...what makes coco more "tolerant" to nuts?
And just curious how does hydroton medium "plays" with over watering and nut burns?
illearth67
12-09-11, 08:12 PM
illearth67 thanks for the EC clarification.
I know that no one told me that you can't get nut burn when using coco.
my question is why you can feed every time you water(every day) when using coco and the nuts by the chart and you won't get any nut burn but when using soil you don't water with nuts every time and also you don't water every day...what makes coco more "tolerant" to nuts?
And just curious how does hydroton medium "plays" with over watering and nut burns?
OK let me explain this as best I can. The amount of nutrients you can give a soil plant is limited by how frequently you can water and also the amount of nutrients you use each time you feed.
So what I'm saying is it would be possible to feed a soil plant every day provided you didn't give it too much nutes in any one day and you didn't over water it.
But since watering a soil plant every day with or without nutrients will definitely lead to over watering this would not be healthy for a soil plant even if the nutrient strength was correct for feeding every day.
So what I'm saying is that the amount of nutes you can feed a soil plant is limited by how much you can water it as much as the nutrient strength itself.
up2nogood
12-09-11, 08:14 PM
I have a mother plant in coco with hesi nutes been vegging for 4 months with no ill effects so I don't think there's any truth in that rumour.
damn that's going to be a big plant when you put that to bud :)
illearth67
12-09-11, 08:33 PM
damn that's going to be a big plant when you put that to bud :)
Yes mate she's a real beauty but she's not tall just bushy cos I've took lots of cuttings off her. I keep her vegging under a T5 cuttings lamp of all things and it's perfect for getting slow but steady veg growth cos I don't want her to grow too fast.
If she doesn't die of old age I'll eventually flower her and she's defo going to be a monster if I do that you might to see her in POTM later this year with a bit of luck.
My lights are off just now but I'll get a pic of her tomoz and put it in the gallery.:stoned-smilie:
its not strictly true that watering every day will lead to overwatering, tho i agree that you have to keep a close eye on overfeeding with soil ; personally i get round it by alternating feed & water (daily, and always within an hour of lights-on), regular flushing , soil testing and keeping a very close eye on the plant for indicators that theres a problem (including brix meter). i've found that when the plants get bigger they get very thirsty - i usually had to give a 4'-5' widow 1.5 to 1.75 litres a day or it would dry out a 12 L pot nearly to the bottom.
i know the answer to that would be hydroponics, but for various reasons its not an option.
i've been watching this exchange with interest, 'cos i fancy trying the coco for a change - i've just noticed the video, so i'll give that a watch & go back over your diary again... the colas on those babies 2 weeks into flowering have definitely caught my attention.....
bodyplan
12-09-11, 09:59 PM
illearth67 ,
Thanks for the nuts explanation.
If I take your explanation one step farther(hope my logic is correct)...when using soil you feed the plant with "jumps" you don't feed everyday and you almost never feed the plant after the same amount of time,some times you feed day early or day later. the plant doesn't get accurate and stablamount of nuts he needs,some times the plant finishes the nuts 2 early and also you never know the precise time for watering and almost every time you water you lock the oxygen for a few hours.
When using coco coir or any other hydro system the plant gets all the oxygen nuts(when going by the chart and looking for nut burn) and water it needs in a very accurate amount all the time with no "jumps" all the hydro method is very accurate and stable and that's the reason why hydro will give you a better results.You get way more tight control on all of the needs of the plant through all the grow period.
Will be waiting for you monster to flower mate.
illearth67
15-09-11, 12:29 AM
illearth67 ,
Thanks for the nuts explanation.
If I take your explanation one step farther(hope my logic is correct)...when using soil you feed the plant with "jumps" you don't feed everyday and you almost never feed the plant after the same amount of time,some times you feed day early or day later. the plant doesn't get accurate and stablamount of nuts he needs,some times the plant finishes the nuts 2 early and also you never know the precise time for watering and almost every time you water you lock the oxygen for a few hours.
When using coco coir or any other hydro system the plant gets all the oxygen nuts(when going by the chart and looking for nut burn) and water it needs in a very accurate amount all the time with no "jumps" all the hydro method is very accurate and stable and that's the reason why hydro will give you a better results.You get way more tight control on all of the needs of the plant through all the grow period.
Will be waiting for you monster to flower mate.
Yes bodyplan that's a very good way of understanding the difference between hydroponic and soil growing. Hydroponic growing allows for very accurate control of feeding and watering tthat simply cannot be achieved using soil and obviously a plant will grow faster if you can give it exactly what it needs when it needs it.:stoned-smilie:
bodyplan
15-09-11, 03:06 PM
I think I know why all the misunderstanding with HESI.
I think that HESI is to blame because the changed the labels on there nuts.
according to their chart you should use TNT complex for the veg weeks and COCO BLOOM for the flowering and add to it the pk 13/14.
I saw few pictures of the same nuts name with different designation I saw The TNT nuts without the coco designation on it and I saw the COCO WITH words: "complete plant food for flowering plants" and with the words "complete plant food for vegetation and flowering"
After talking with the guys selling the HESI nuts and looking at the HESI chart you should use the TNT Complex that designation for coco and soil on it for the veg time and use the COCO that got "complete plant food for flowering plants" on it.
in any case the TNT I got has NPK of 3:2:3 and the COCO got NPK of 3:4:5
*I do my best to add some pictures soon.
with my soil grows i'm used to keeping the ph of my feed at 6.7-6.8 ; if i'm hand-watering in coco what should the ph be ?
illearth67
15-09-11, 10:19 PM
with my soil grows i'm used to keeping the ph of my feed at 6.7-6.8 ; if i'm hand-watering in coco what should the ph be ?
The ideal pH for coco is in the range pH 5.5-6.0. I always set it to pH 5.8 myself and never vary it and I've always had great results.
If you have soft water there's a good chance you won't have to alter your pH at all cos nutrients are acidic and will drop your pH naturally, if not then you will need to use pH up/down solutions to control it.
up2nogood
15-09-11, 10:24 PM
I think I know why all the misunderstanding with HESI.
I think that HESI is to blame because the changed the labels on there nuts.
according to their chart you should use TNT complex for the veg weeks and COCO BLOOM for the flowering and add to it the pk 13/14.
I saw few pictures of the same nuts name with different designation I saw The TNT nuts without the coco designation on it and I saw the COCO WITH words: "complete plant food for flowering plants" and with the words "complete plant food for vegetation and flowering"
After talking with the guys selling the HESI nuts and looking at the HESI chart you should use the TNT Complex that designation for coco and soil on it for the veg time and use the COCO that got "complete plant food for flowering plants" on it.
in any case the TNT I got has NPK of 3:2:3 and the COCO got NPK of 3:4:5
*I do my best to add some pictures soon.
in any case the TNT I got has NPK of 3:2:3 and the COCO got NPK of 3:4:5
same as mine and possible same as illearths
illearth67
15-09-11, 11:28 PM
in any case the TNT I got has NPK of 3:2:3 and the COCO got NPK of 3:4:5
same as mine and possible same as illearths
Hi guys yes I agree Hesi have made a blunder in the way they label their nutrients and I've said so myself elsewhere.
Although Hesi recommend TNT complex for veg growth I myself have never used it and I can definitely say it is not needed to grow great plants.
I only use the two other types of Hesi coco i.e. the N-P-K 3-4-5 and N-P-K 8-6-10 bottles that I posted pics of earlier in the thread and my plants are awesome
If you have the cash then by all means buy all the Hesi nutes and use them according to their feed schedule but be aware you don't have to use them all to grow awesome plants.
The ideal pH for coco is in the range pH 5.5-6.0. I always set it to pH 5.8 myself and never vary it and I've always had great results.
If you have soft water there's a good chance you won't have to alter your pH at all cos nutrients are acidic and will drop your pH naturally, if not then you will need to use pH up/down solutions to control it.
ta for that...
do you flush occasionally with coco like soil, or does the coco not build up toxic nute levels ?
bodyplan
16-09-11, 08:27 PM
Hi guys yes I agree Hesi have made a blunder in the way they label their nutrients and I've said so myself elsewhere.
Although Hesi recommend TNT complex for veg growth I myself have never used it and I can definitely say it is not needed to grow great plants.
I only use the two other types of Hesi coco i.e. the N-P-K 3-4-5 and N-P-K 8-6-10 bottles that I posted pics of earlier in the thread and my plants are awesome
If you have the cash then by all means buy all the Hesi nutes and use them according to their feed schedule but be aware you don't have to use them all to grow awesome plants.
I have no plans buying all the "lot" (done that expansive mistake with the biobizz soil nuts :) ).can you tell me what is the amount of coco for flowering you use my has NPK of 3-4-5 and I should use 50ml/10L
I am thinking that maybe you use coco for flowering that got NPK of 6-8-10 but use it in less consecration like say 25ml/10L...this will make sense.
up2nogood
16-09-11, 08:40 PM
I have been using TNT complex for 3 weeks and it has made my plant grow really nice and lively so I think I made a good choice buying it. The bloom I have is 3.4.5 so not particular high
illearth67
17-09-11, 11:07 PM
ta for that...
do you flush occasionally with coco like soil, or does the coco not build up toxic nute levels ?
Some people like to flush occasionally in coco but I have never needed to do it and provided your feed strength is correct it really isn't necessary until the final flush at the end of the grow.
It is very important that you always water coco until you get run off out the bottom of the pot as this will greatly reduce the possibility of salt build up.
It's also worth mentioning here that you can flower your plants in smaller pots than would be advisable in soil because coco plants take much longer to become root bound in the pot. Unless you plan to veg for a very long time 10 Litre pots are big enough to flower in, yet another advantage of growing in coco.
illearth67
17-09-11, 11:11 PM
I have no plans buying all the "lot" (done that expansive mistake with the biobizz soil nuts :) ).can you tell me what is the amount of coco for flowering you use my has NPK of 3-4-5 and I should use 50ml/10L
I am thinking that maybe you use coco for flowering that got NPK of 6-8-10 but use it in less consecration like say 25ml/10L...this will make sense.
Yes bodyplan Hesi are just like any other business they are out to make as much money as possible but if I were going to buy the full range of any nutrients then Hesi would be my choice cos at least you will get good value for your money.
The basics nutes needed for any grow remain the same whether you are using hydro or soil they are:
1)Veg nutes, Hesi coco N-P-K 8-6-10
2)Flower nutes . Hesi coco N-P-K 3-4-5
3)Flower booster. PK 13/14
Most nute manufacturers also make their own root stimulators like TNT complex but you don't need to use them, but if you can afford them then they do help in the early stages of veg growth.
When using Hesi nutes you should follow the recommended doses on the bottles, that is 3 ml/Litre for veg and 5 ml/Litre for flower.
I have never had any nute burn but as always you should watch your plants for any signs of nute burn and reduce feed strength if you see it.
The reason Hesi coco bloom has less P and K than the veg nutes is because the bloom nutes should be used along with PK 13/14.
I personally don't recommend using Hesi veg nutes N-P-K 8-6-10 for flower because it contains too much Nitrogen for a flowering plant, it's better to use Hesi bloom N-P-K 3-4-5 and PK 13/14 only during flower in my opinion.
up2nogood
17-09-11, 11:23 PM
I have been using 4 to 5ml in veg but ec was only at 0.8 so no nuteburn..Now in flower and adding bloom going to stick to the same..4 to 5 ml
" It's also worth mentioning here that you can flower your plants in smaller pots than would be advisable in soil because coco plants take much longer to become root bound in the pot. Unless you plan to veg for a very long time 10 Litre pots are big enough to flower in, yet another advantage of growing in coco. "
thats handy, 'cos trying to flush a half-decent sized plant in a big pot is a pain in the arse between the time & the weight of the damned thing.....
could you use coco in 10L air-pots ?
up2nogood
20-09-11, 06:35 PM
could you use coco in 10L air-pots ?
yep no problem..have you used one before?
bodyplan
20-09-11, 07:12 PM
Yes illearth67 I totally agree with your main point when you veg you need high "N" and when flower you use more "PK" the label on the bottle isn't the main thing.
My next grow will be coco but because I hate 2 hassle(making the mix watering and pot moving every day+cleaning after) and can't be at home every day I decided to find a hydro system that will do the watering job for me. all of the systems I read about are price and have 2 much "moving parts" and obligate you to constantly monitor the pH and EC because in all of the more efficient hydro systems the run off water goes back to the tank and fucks up the EC and pH balance...which is a a pain. So after some more reading I stumbled on the "AUTOPOT" system. It's is cheap and very KISS(keep it simple stupid) and will work with any pot so my air pots will work fine. You just fill up the the tank from time to time and let the pot/plant a bottom feed. and from time 2 time you can water the plants from above. I have already read a 1-2 coco+autopots diary. So got me the system and got it ruining in a few minutes (without any pots) and it looks promising :)
*the bottom feed works better then I hoped for. I took a 1 liter pot with soil without any plant in it I then placed it's bottom in a small tank filled with 5cm water and in afew hours the soil was all wet.
yep no problem..have you used one before?
no, tho i've been reading some of the diaries that have them & they sound like they are worth a go at least - the only thing is i've got the gear together to do my next grow in coco, so i dont know if i should go 1 in an airpot & 1 in my usual deep 10 L pots, or if i should just rattle ahead and use airpots for both.....
i've years of experience growing Widows in soil, so i know what to expect & look for with them - i was really just wondering if the airpots would change the watering, as i'll be hand-watering them.....(like should i expect any of the water to piss out the sides...lol...)
up2nogood
20-09-11, 08:09 PM
expect water to come out most of the holes,pour it slowly,you could get a watering can but will take more time though. you can use a normal pot then repot into air pots
i imagine i would have to start watering in the center at the stem & work my way out slowly, so i can gauge the amount of run-off....?
up2nogood
20-09-11, 08:22 PM
i imagine i would have to start watering in the center at the stem & work my way out slowly, so i can gauge the amount of run-off....?
yes that's what I do usually,the bottom can be a bit weak with airpots so use cable ties to tie the bottom to the sides of the airpot so you can put the airpot onto some pieces of 3 by 3 inch wood..or 2x2 inch..that's what I use to catch the run off,I use a container but with airpots it's going to be different,I made a hole in the large pot saucer and the water falls out of the hole into a container,I have 2 pieces of wood under the saucer
good idea - i'll probably end up with something similar.....
do you think i should just go ahead with the 2 airpots ? ...i suppose if i dont i'll probably regret it come harvest time if they work as well as it seems.....
could you recommend any airpot diaries ? ...i'm having bother finding the ones i saw before...
up2nogood
20-09-11, 08:53 PM
think adambomb did one with air pots..not certain though.. yeah get it on with the air pots :)
i thought it might have been Adambomb - that 'garbage-pail kid' avatar of his stuck in my memory...lol...
found it, thanks.....
thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?46884-Trifle-M.I.L.F-hunting-asda-diary.&highlight=adambomb
robinhood
23-09-11, 07:45 PM
Just wanting to add something re: hesi nutes coco.
I used TNT for veg, after 4-5 weeks from seed, plants started yellowing what looked like MG def. Ok so i thought il add some epsom salts via foliar - no joy. Def getting worse.
So then thought might be lockout and flushed the buggers. Still no joy.
Switched to the COCO bloom while till in veg - they are recovering. Thank fuck.
What a plava - first time using hesi.
Hope this helps someone in future. TNT is fine to start but you may need to change to bloom earlier than scheduled if plants show it.
B.A.BARACUS
22-11-11, 10:13 PM
great read was this.. no doubt i'll be coming back here as ive just got myself some canna coco & house & garden nutes, also have 5 beans in wet paper towel.
great read was this.. no doubt i'll be coming back here as ive just got myself some canna coco & house & garden nutes, also have 5 beans in wet paper towel.
Top stuff is canna coco, you'll love it. What did you grow in before?
I'm gonna change my light period so I can be awake to feed twice a day rather than once cos I hand water them. It's said to improve overall plant health and yield I guess. Alternatively I'm gonna come up with a way to drip feed it or something so it's constantly feeding.
B.A.BARACUS
23-11-11, 10:19 PM
Last grow was in coco, not canna tho, am a bit more clued up now I've read up lots but too much reading is not good I guess, going to hand water into pots everyday with a run off, got 5 beans in heated prop as we speak..
Photosynthesis
10-01-12, 04:18 AM
The ideal pH for coco is in the range pH 5.5-6.0. I always set it to pH 5.8 myself and never vary it and I've always had great results.
If you have soft water there's a good chance you won't have to alter your pH at all cos nutrients are acidic and will drop your pH naturally, if not then you will need to use pH up/down solutions to control it.
not all nutes are acidic,
POTASSIUM is highly alkaline.
SWSERGIO1
09-02-12, 07:07 PM
Now then poeple, I have three kush in 15l pots of coco, feeding with canna a&b and cannazyme under a 600w hps, been vegging for three week now, my water ph is 7.6, after adding nutes it goes down to 6.0 as a new grower I did not realize coco is not soil, and ph my fed to 6.7, only just got the ph tester today so dont know what its been in the past,, when I got the tester and up/down I ran 6.5 water through the plants an d the run off was exactly the same (6.5), I have not yet fed them with the new feed I made (6.7) due to just feeding them the 6.5ph'd water, I now have been told that coco is not soil and and needs to be at 5.8, can I just add ph down and knock it straight down to 5.8 ready for next feed tomorow?
cocogrower
10-02-12, 11:43 AM
can I just add ph down and knock it straight down to 5.8 ready for next feed tomorow?
Yeah fella, 5.7-6.1 for Coco, 5.8 being the sweetspot.
.................................................
I'm going to try some peppers in coco but I'm worried about the taste, how does it compare to soil?
Azerbanphal
03-06-13, 09:44 AM
It doesn't compare to soil at all really mate - its a hydroponic medium.
For growing your own veg etc, surely its got to be soil...
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