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Dirk Gently
06-03-11, 09:30 PM
Hi there peeps,

Every Cannabis lover has experienced in his or her life a moment of horror at someone talking complete bollocks about our favourite plant. It causes psychosis, it's a gateway drug etc...

Well here's the place to list them. Please list as briefly as possible every argument you have every heard IN FAVOUR of prohibition or AGAINST our beloved Cannabis.

I'm hoping to create a flashcard that all Cannabis activists can use in debates or as required. We've all heard the arguments against Pot, now let's document them and sit the answers next to them.

I thank you in advance,

Dirk Gently

New Age Outlaw
06-03-11, 09:34 PM
Brilliant idea Dirk! Love the idea.

Some of the political arguments I've gone over AGAINST regulation and in favour of the status quo:

The black-market. No point in sorting this out as we'll have a black-market
Profiteers will find something else to exploit so no point in regulation (you'd think this would be the same as the above excuse, but you often see them written together but in differing points believe it or not)
It'll send the children the wrong message


I'll keep thinking. Love the idea! :leaf:

Dirk Gently
06-03-11, 09:36 PM
Brilliant idea Dirk! Love the idea.

Some of the political arguments I've gone over AGAINST regulation and in favour of the status quo:

The black-market. No point in sorting this out as we'll have a black-market
Profiteers will find something else to exploit so no point in regulation (you'd think this would be the same as the above excuse, but you often see them written together but in differing points believe it or not
It'll send the children the wrong message


I'll keep thinking. Love the idea! :leaf:

Really? That's an argument AGAINST?? It's going to be like shooting fish in a barrel...

Ah, right. It sorted it's formatting out - I get it now!

Sir-smokeup
08-03-11, 08:08 PM
I think we have some work to do mate!

I don't know what kind of layout your thinking, perhaps something like:
Health Effect
- No Recorded Deaths From Cannabis
-Psychosis linked with strong strains. We can't chose how strong the stuff that we buy is.
-Black Market drugs can have anything in them. Regulated drugs would be clean, minimising health risks.
-Paranoia stems from the illegal status of the plant
-Compare to alcohol & tobacco, no deaths, no violence even evidence to suggest you are more aware when stoned than not.
-Not addictive, addiction comes through the tobacco it is smoked with

Economical Effect

Crime Effect



Im gonna come back and add to this, but i got to go make pancakes now!!! Rock n roll..... Is this the kind of thing your thinking or am I way off?

Dirk Gently
08-03-11, 08:11 PM
I think we have some work to do mate!

I don't know what kind of layout your thinking, perhaps something like:
Health Effect
- No Recorded Deaths From Cannabis
-Psychosis linked with strong strains. We can't chose how strong the stuff that we buy is.
-Black Market drugs can have anything in them. Regulated drugs would be clean, minimising health risks.
-Paranoia stems from the illegal status of the plant
-Compare to alcohol & tobacco, no deaths, no violence even evidence to suggest you are more aware when stoned than not.
-Not addictive, addiction comes through the tobacco it is smoked with

Economical Effect

Crime Effect



Im gonna come back and add to this, but i got to go make pancakes now!!! Rock n roll..... Is this the kind of thing your thinking or am I way off?

Whoa slow down there cowboy! :D

Initially I just want to focus solely on the other side's arguments against Cannabis so if you can pass on what you've heard that'd be ace. Couple of good suggestions there. Thanks!

Sir-smokeup
08-03-11, 08:12 PM
Ha, my bad.. I do tend to go gung ho on the subject.

jaydee
08-03-11, 08:14 PM
ok the worst thing about the plant is.......it helps my sciatica pains so much but am not allowed it by law WTF

Dirk Gently
08-03-11, 08:16 PM
Ha, my bad.. I do tend to go gung ho on the subject.

Not bad. Good! :D

Just needed to reign you in a bit or I'll get behind lol

Dirk Gently
08-03-11, 08:17 PM
ok the worst thing about the plant is.......it helps my pains so much but am not allowed it by law WTF

More of a problem with the law than the plant but thanks for the suggestion. This one will be kept for later on the arguments for.

New Age Outlaw
10-03-11, 05:46 PM
Remembered two last night, then forgot one. Tits!

"We can't 'legalise' as we won't be able to legislate for driving and operating under the influence"

new_neo
12-03-11, 07:41 AM
Cannabis apparently:

causes cancer
results in laziness and/or paranoia
can trigger/cause mental illnesses
leads to nicotine addiction
is addictive
causes brain damage
is a highly dangerous drug in general
decreases motivation and productivity
leads to harder drugs
stunts mental growth in younger people (quite possibly actually true)
is a danger to the oil, cotton, timber and alcohol industries among others
was created by satan and ensnares the souls of its users, turning them into mindless puppets of evil

Dirk Gently
12-03-11, 07:43 AM
WoW thanks dude! You got most of the common ones there. Busy, busy, busy.

Dirk Gently
12-03-11, 07:49 AM
Ooh, ooh, ooh SUPER KILLER SKUNK is not the same stuff as we smoked in the 60's/70's

bucketluggs
14-03-11, 12:03 AM
Banned in 1920s coz it makes white woman promiscuious and sleep with black men.

'its very very toxic and harmful' (mr c)

nuube
19-03-11, 07:40 PM
causes cancer AND CAN HELP CURE IT
results in laziness and/or paranoia YOU REALISE MOST OF THE CRAP WE DO ISN'T WORTH DOING

can trigger/cause mental illnesses PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS FIND CANNABIS BEFORE PSYCHIATRY

leads to nicotine addiction CAN DO THAT'S WHY YOU SMOKE PURE GREEN, VAPE OR EAT IT

is addictive NO EVIDENCE FOR PHYSICAL ADDICTION

causes brain damage MANY STUDIES DISAGREE WITH THIS

is a highly dangerous drug in general LESS DANGEROUS THAN ALCOHOL AND IT'S MAIN DANGER IS THAT IT PUTS HEALING IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE

decreases motivation and productivity SEE FOR LAZINESS

leads to harder drugs BECAUSE OF PROHIBITION NOT BECAUSE OF CANNABIS

stunts mental growth in younger people (quite possibly actually true) YOUNG PEOPLE GET IT AS IT IS IN THE HANDS OF DEALERS

is a danger to the oil, cotton, timber and alcohol industries among others THE REASON IT IS ILLEGAL

was created by satan and ensnares the souls of its users, turning them into mindless puppets of evil NO IT IS THE PUPPETS OF EVIL THAT ARE KEEPING THE HEALING HERB DOWN

The Lost Soul
20-03-11, 12:28 PM
It turns ordinary men into pedophiles when smoked in large quantities.
The more you smoke, the younger they get.
That's what the daily mail says anyway so it must be true!
Cheers

New Age Outlaw
21-03-11, 07:00 PM
Here's my favourite at the mo, I've had this quite a few times recently:

"There are more important things to worry about"

Weedy1972
23-03-11, 11:56 AM
Cannabis surely causes fatalities in terms of "mishaps under the influence" -- seriously, that came up in a conversation once.

Weedy1972
23-03-11, 11:58 AM
All the reported positive effects of cannabis are based on bogus studies. In fact, any study advocating the harmlessness of cannabis is bogus.

Yes, I got that one, too..

nuube
23-03-11, 12:08 PM
Cannabis surely causes fatalities in terms of "mishaps under the influence" -- seriously, that came up in a conversation once.

Very true. I was in a lot of pain, took some cannabis then a while later my dog jumped up on my lap spilling my coffee. I am sure that was down to the cannabis - evil weed that it is.

In fairness, I suppose there could be accidents under the influence, but I would imagine if you were that stoned it would cause a major problem you wouldn't be in the mood for moving a lot!

new_neo
23-03-11, 05:11 PM
Here's my favourite at the mo, I've had this quite a few times recently:

"There are more important things to worry about"

As much as I'd love cannabis to be legal, there are more important things to worry about.


Cannabis surely causes fatalities in terms of "mishaps under the influence" -- seriously, that came up in a conversation once.

Eh, I've done some silly stuff while high that could have ended badly and I probably wouldn't have done if sober. Mostly when I was younger though.

New Age Outlaw
23-03-11, 06:57 PM
As much as I'd love cannabis to be legal, there are more important things to worry about.




Well, I certainly didn't expect that from a someone in the know! lol. This is my reply whenever I see that one (it is a pet peeve of mine that specific one) -

Firstly, check the political history of Britain, moreover War history. During the second world war, Britain pushed through and did some tremendous domestic legislative actions. The country didn't cease to function then, so why would it at any other time?! There is no priority to politics. This excuse is PURELY political delay tactics and nothing more. Just a month ago, I saw a packed house debate how un-kept shrubs were ruining the views of so many people, this had tremendous backing and was pushed through immediately... you see my point. It is political nonsense that we can find within "there are more imortant things".

Then, I ask, what other subject matter costs the country around £20billion in judicial services that perpetuate a problem, in turn, this hands £6billion to the worst gangs, cartels and human traffickers you can imagine. This £6billion also funds terrorism, child exploitation, and the arms trade.

Then, we have people who are being forced to take organ toxic medication and are facing the choice of a slow death through prescribed meds that are infective, or loss of liberty through ingesting a very safe substance in comparison. There is not a more important issue to these people I wager.

Then, we have 8 million regular cannabis user in the UK. Their loss of life through inhibited livelihood and job prospects means that a vry real treadmill of hell is in place for those wishing to ingest a safer substance than alcohol.

Furthermore; children have ready access to bad cannabis that has the incorrect balance of cannabinoids, adulterants like glass, harder drugs, and chemicals to give false potencies and weight for the hardline cash croppers. This will lead a child to all manner of health fallout and judicial reprisal resulting in a life ruined before it starts.

I think you can see where my position stands on the matter. hehe:leaf::smokie::)

Dirk Gently
23-03-11, 07:48 PM
I reckon you just got spanked mate lol. NAO is a pro-warrior. :P

Thanks for all this info guys, I know it's tempting to get into debate here on the thread but I consider we're all on the same side more or less. This is taking a lot longer than I'd hoped due to the amount of research on fine detail I'm having to do. I feel a bit like a solicitor only less evil, bloodsucking and generally unpleasant. No offence to any solicitors here, I just hate you :D

Some of the suggestions overlap a bit so I'm trying to generalise them a bit . "Mental Health" would be Brain damage and paranoia etc.

New Age Outlaw
23-03-11, 07:58 PM
No no, no spanking! Unless we're up for that?! :blush::jawdrop: hehe, Like the Warrior though, that's a keeper. I just get to hear most of the arguments and some annoy me, that one does. No malice aimed at new_neo, anyone on here is a friend in my books.

Good stuff Dirk, look forward to it all. I'm sure I can still think of more, brain's fried at mo!!

Dirk Gently
23-03-11, 08:07 PM
No no, no spanking! Unless we're up for that?! :blush::jawdrop: hehe, Like the Warrior though, that's a keeper. I just get to hear most of the arguments and some annoy me, that one does. No malice aimed at new_neo, anyone on here is a friend in my books.

Good stuff Dirk, look forward to it all. I'm sure I can still think of more, brain's fried at mo!!

Nah I was just messing about, all in jest I assure you. I hope NN took no offence, as none was intended.:mr:

New Age Outlaw
23-03-11, 08:09 PM
Oh gawd, I've over compensated and created a scene, my mum told me this would happen! No offence taken from the no offence intended from the initial potential offence! Right Neo, look what you've started! Mods, BAN HAMMER HIM!

New Age Outlaw
23-03-11, 08:10 PM
Just realised, I'm the mod of this forum, I'm looking for ban hammer now! lol

Dirk Gently
23-03-11, 08:17 PM
lol you're mental mate. I want what he's having. You should know better than to have two drama queens in one thread both apologising for nothing lol.

New Age Outlaw
23-03-11, 08:30 PM
Cannabis causes social ineptitude?

Weedy1972
28-03-11, 11:13 AM
Cannabis causes social ineptitude?

Well, considering the mind boggling bullshit some people do and say when sober, that might be a positive effect.

5
30-03-11, 10:11 PM
The cannabis causes brain damage is not a valid scientific fact so that can not go on the list.

The scientist that done that experiment made monkeys smoke a SHIT LOAD of cannabis all at once without any normal air, The monkey had a breathe mask on and was being fed the smoke for minutes of end.

If you starve anyone of oxygen for minutes on end and they survive of course its going to cause brain damage.

I see what your doing with this thread and I am in support of you, but that should not be included on the list.

As for another against cannabis argument: Having another legal drug is bad for society

I'm awful at these because the ones I always hear sound absolute rubbish to me so I never remember them i.e:

Cannabis lowers your sperm count (it mildly raises it dumb ass)
Cannabis makes you stupid (no cannabis makes you feel generally happier, you could take an IQ test and probably score higher on cannabis)
Cannabis causes cancer (no it doesn't infact it helps fight cancer in more then one way)

etc etc.

All the current system does is put innocent growers for personal use in jail, gives money to the criminals, and leaves all the taxpayers worse off whether they smoke it or not due to prison population and having to pay the police to look for the cannabis "fiends"

new_neo
31-03-11, 04:26 AM
NAO: I'm not disagreeing that the legalization of cannabis would go a long way towards solving some of our societies current issues, but I'd still disagree that it should be the number one priority. I'd personally class the introduction of a fair and democratic proportionally represetative voting system, the legalization of prostitution, re-evaluation of funding (ie decreasing the military budget and transferring that money into education and the NHS) as equally, if not more important. Although to be fair, the legalization of cannabis would have the greatest benefit for me on an individual level. I also agree that political priorities are screwed up at present. Still, I do think that a shift towards a less militaristic and interfering outlook on foreign affairs would have to take precedence over changing drugs legislation. I'm also pretty sure that child exploitation and the arms trade fund themselves pretty well. If gangs were having to use money made from selling drugs to perform these activities then they wouldn't be profitable, and as such wouldn't occur.
Sorry to play devils advocate here. I do fully support legalization in every sense possible, but I still don't see it as the number one priority.

I've got another downside for cannabis as well. It mildly raises your sperm count :P

EDIT: *Prepares for the textual beating* :)

nuube
31-03-11, 10:27 AM
NAO: I'm not disagreeing that the legalization of cannabis would go a long way towards solving some of our societies current issues, but I'd still disagree that it should be the number one priority. I'd personally class the introduction of a fair and democratic proportionally represetative voting system, the legalization of prostitution, re-evaluation of funding (ie decreasing the military budget and transferring that money into education and the NHS) as equally, if not more important. Although to be fair, the legalization of cannabis would have the greatest benefit for me on an individual level. I also agree that political priorities are screwed up at present. Still, I do think that a shift towards a less militaristic and interfering outlook on foreign affairs would have to take precedence over changing drugs legislation. I'm also pretty sure that child exploitation and the arms trade fund themselves pretty well. If gangs were having to use money made from selling drugs to perform these activities then they wouldn't be profitable, and as such wouldn't occur.
Sorry to play devils advocate here. I do fully support legalization in every sense possible, but I still don't see it as the number one priority.

I've got another downside for cannabis as well. It mildly raises your sperm count :P

EDIT: *Prepares for the textual beating* :)


Very worthy sentiments, but the legalisation of cannabis is achievable most of your other points will not be.

Dirk Gently
06-04-11, 07:19 PM
Right then.

I have 10 of the top general reasons why people think Cannabis should be illegal:

1. Children (to protect them)
2. Causes poor mental health (Schizophrenia, "Psychosis", Paranoia, forgetfulness, Alzheimer's etc)
3. Causes poor physical health (Heart disease, Cancer, Brain damage etc)
4. Gateway drug (self explanatory)
5. Sending the wrong message (People/Children will think all drugs are OK to use)
6. Super Skunk (Not the same as the weed we smoked in the 60's or whenever)
7. Funds crime and/or terrorism (self explanatory)
8. There are more important things to worry about (War, Famine, Pestilence, The Economy and Death - Horsemen of the Neo-Apocalypse)
9. Accidents/Deaths resulting directly or indirectly from Cannabis use. (Suicide, overdose, being stupid, drug driving, falling etc)
10. Is addictive (self explanatory)

I've started looking at the arguments against, but have to consider the two main options on the table besides the way things are: Legalisation and Decriminalisation (not to be used for profit)

I will be including a glossary of interesting terms.

Nearly there, been a bit off lately sorry guys.

New Age Outlaw
08-04-11, 12:15 AM
NAO: I'm not disagreeing that the legalization of cannabis would go a long way towards solving some of our societies current issues, but I'd still disagree that it should be the number one priority. I'd personally class the introduction of a fair and democratic proportionally represetative voting system, the legalization of prostitution, re-evaluation of funding (ie decreasing the military budget and transferring that money into education and the NHS) as equally, if not more important. Although to be fair, the legalization of cannabis would have the greatest benefit for me on an individual level. I also agree that political priorities are screwed up at present. Still, I do think that a shift towards a less militaristic and interfering outlook on foreign affairs would have to take precedence over changing drugs legislation. I'm also pretty sure that child exploitation and the arms trade fund themselves pretty well. If gangs were having to use money made from selling drugs to perform these activities then they wouldn't be profitable, and as such wouldn't occur.
Sorry to play devils advocate here. I do fully support legalization in every sense possible, but I still don't see it as the number one priority.

I've got another downside for cannabis as well. It mildly raises your sperm count :P

EDIT: *Prepares for the textual beating* :)

hehe, thanks mate, I fully appreciate what you say, don't worry, I'm not going to try and rail-road you into any opinion, I fully respect all you have to say, I also agree with what you, that we have some burning issues that need sorting indeed. The point I was making is that you don't have priorities in politics, there's no hierarchy of gravitas. It's all policy that needs equally addressing. There are thousands upon thousands employed in the commons, the lords, home office, civil servants. They all have their own departments, they all know what they're doing. I'm not randomly patronising you you understand, I'm just iterating that it is purely a delay tactic to say we have bigger priorities. It's a nonsense thing to say within the halls of power; politics has no priorities and never should; as soon as we reach that point, we arguably have subjective fascism.

With regards to human trafficking and child exploitation etc; this is unfortunately very real. The BBC programme that I was in - well, I got to hear and know about some tales that would make your heart break fully in two. They covered some of them in the films. These are not just stories to be objectively viewed and speculated on, these are real people who are embroiled in cannabis underground and a literal life-line of ending this law. Also, I tend to get around 200 emails daily from all walks of life, whether it is medicinal users, respected citizens that have had their lives wrecked through current law in some way, or people that are caught up in the rings that I have just previously spoke on. When faced with these real life happenings, you really do struggle to maintain that this is not a very important issue; once more, it is for politics to act upon any wrong.

Finally, don't forget Mexico, we're heading that way. 35 000 dead in four years, men, women, children, innocents. This is a direct result or prohibition. I wish to prevent more of this action. The UK is heading this way bit by bit, piece by piece.

As for the sperm count... are you flirting with me now Neo??!! lol All the best mate!

New Age Outlaw
08-04-11, 12:16 AM
Nice work Dirk, this is going to be a valuable tool!

Dirk Gently
01-05-11, 11:43 AM
It's been a while now. I have to hold my hands up and apologise for not finishing this yet. I'm not sure I ever will now. It's half done but my health has taken a massive dive over the past few weeks and I can't face doing it. I need to take more time out. I'll remove the link from my sig.