View Full Version : should i need to use a rcd
prits_uk2002
21-03-11, 09:40 PM
hi i have 1 socket which has 1 plug hole to supply my grow obviously need more so i am thinking of pluging in a 6-10 way adaptor, so i will the have 6-10 plug holes. i wanted to know if a rcd is needed. and if so where would it go?i imagine in the 1 plug hole that i have, i would put the rcd in there then put my extention in the rcd? thanks
mellowed
21-03-11, 10:00 PM
That depends what light you are using mate. I use a 4 way extension to run my 400w light and a 70w light and 2 pc fans and a heater which comes on after the lights go out. I have the 2 fans plugged into a 2 way adapter using the thinking that both fans only a small amount of electricity an it seems ok.
ladygarden
21-03-11, 10:09 PM
An RCD is a very useful, and often ovelooked inexpensive bit of kit. Just last week I saved my ballast through using one due to a short. ! Personally I would not grow indoors without one as too many things can catch you out, overheating, burnouts, water etc,
Stick it in the main plug socket and have your extension coming from this. That way, any electrical faults should be caught before any damage is done. I wouldn't go for the cheapest chinese plastic thing you can get your hands on either as they may not act fast enough, not be able to handle the load from your grow or may kick in unnecessarily.
peace:p
Smokeface
21-03-11, 10:17 PM
Hi ladygarden
I use these rcds with my grow equipment and they were just from B&Q.
Do you think these will be good enough?
Can you recommend any good makes of rcds?
Thanks
Smokeface
Are u sheer your fuse box docent have one check coz mast fuse boxes have rcds built in unless it's a real old one
Goodbuddy
21-03-11, 10:59 PM
Hi ladygarden
I use these rcds with my grow equipment and they were just from B&Q.
Do you think these will be good enough?
Can you recommend any good makes of rcds?
They should be ok Smokeface :), if they were two for a quid from the pound shop I'd be worried LOL
as said you fuse box should have one but for the sake of a few quid get on out of homebase ....i think they where on offer the other day so even better!
i have on connected to a 6 gang extension that has one built in too!
prits_uk2002
22-03-11, 10:45 AM
thanks i bought on from b & q cost about a tenner. from my power point in attic which is just one plug i want to plug in 6-10 extention. on there i would like to run
1 a relay
2 600w dual spectrum light
3 tt125 exhaust fan,
4 possibly in the future a heater and cooler if such a thing exist
5 possibly an intake fan (would i need this if i bought the cooler/heater in one?
6. music shity little radio or something
7 spare
8 spare
9 spare
would i be ok running theese things or am i overloading?i woiuld also like to know
1 would the rcd have any probs with running the light as i heard the timers can mess up so just wondering if rcd will be ok.
2 with a relay is my timer gonna be ok i have a plug and grow heavy duty mechanical timer44
3 are digital ones better
4 why is relay needed
prits_uk2002
22-03-11, 10:57 AM
sorry forgot to add the rcd spec is
rated 240v ac 50hz
max current 13amps
max load 3120 watts
rated trip current 30ma
trip speed 40ms (typical) double pole rcd contact break bs7071
will this be ok to run everything mentioned in previous post ?i did try editing but after 8 mins i cudnt so sorry for posting again
Alchemist Of Green
22-03-11, 02:06 PM
A residual-current device (RCD), similar to a residual current circuit breaker (RCCB), (formerly known as an Earth leakage circuit breaker or ELCB) is an electrical wiring device that disconnects a circuit whenever it detects that the electric current is not balanced between the energized conductor and the return neutral conductor. Such an imbalance is sometimes caused by current leakage through the body of a person who is grounded and accidentally touching the energized part of the circuit. A lethal shock can result from these conditions. RCDs are designed to disconnect quickly enough to mitigate the harm caused by such shocks although they are not intended to provide protection against overload or short-circuit conditions.
so it wont help you if you overload ur socket. what you want is an RCBO.
an RCD is more for garden use. like if your mowing the lawn and you go over the cable. or diy if your useing a drill.
safety first guys:)
prits_uk2002
23-03-11, 10:49 AM
thanks i agree safety first. From what ive researched the rcbo does the same job as the rcd but also has an overload system built in is that correct?
Alchemist Of Green
23-03-11, 01:25 PM
yes and it will cost more than a RCD. if it was me id be checking the fuses in the plugs that run your equipment.
making sure their are rated for the appliance. also this single socket your usein. where is it run from?
hope its not off a lighting circuit. because these run at 5/6 amp max. this is the stuff you should be looking into.
hope this helps mate:)
prits_uk2002
23-03-11, 01:58 PM
I dont mind paying the extra for the rcbo. Regards to checking the fuses I have only set my tent up, I still need to unpack all the other equipment. I would have thought the fuses that came with the items would be right for them. As this is all new to me I would prefer to go from what you and other experience people advise, how can i ensure the correct fuses are used?
In regards to the single socket im not sure where its from. is the any way of checking? Perhasp switching of switches at the fusebox? If the socket does come of the lighting circuit what would be the consequences if i hooked it all up and tried to run it? Fire, major damage, electrical shock or just the switches on the fusebox go off?
What would i need to do to correct the situation if the socket comes from a lighting circuit?
thanks for all the info so far i really appreciate it
the fuses that come in the lights etc only protect the item the plug is on...
you do need to work out your load and use the appropriate fuses ; the equation you need to remember is
Watts = Amps x Volts
or put another way
Watts = Amps
Volts
(Watts divides by Volts = Amps)
for example, if you are using a 600W light + a 20W fan + an 80W heater your total Watts would be 700W
UK household electric is 240V , so your Amps would be 700 divided by 240 = 2.92 Amps , therefore your extension lead would need a 5A fuse (just to near to 3 for a 3A fuse...) - you should always use the fuse size thats the first one above your total Amps - DONT just stick a 13A fuse in if you dont need it , the fuse is there for protection
what concerns me is you saying you will be using a socket run off the lighting circuit ; the lighting fuses on your meter board are only 5 Amp - if you exceed 5 Amps with your grow kit the fuse will blow...
proper socket circuit fuses are 30 Amp so they can handle all the various appliances plugged in round your house ; if you need to set up in the loft you really need to run your extension lead off a proper socket...
my grow-room is a cupboard behind the hot press/linen cupboard ; what i did was to disconnect the immersion heater from its fused spur in the hot press, then run a good heavy 3 core flex from the spur thru the stud wall into the grow space where it feed 2 double sockets - the immersion heater is always on its own 15Amp fuse in the meter board, which easily covers my needs... (i dont use the immersion heater 'cos i have solid fuel heating which takes care of the hot water anyway...)
i'm not saying you should necessarily do this, but you do need to consider the load (Amps) you will be drawing for your grow space & allow for anything else you may need to plug in later - it could save you getting a possibly lethal shock, or starting an electrical fire which would really ruin your day...
hope this helps...
B.
prits_uk2002
23-03-11, 09:37 PM
"UK household electric is 240V , so your Amps would be 700 divided by 240 = 2.92 Amps , therefore your extension lead would need a 5A fuse (just to near to 3 for a 3A fuse...) - you should always use the fuse size thats the first one above your total Amps - DONT just stick a 13A fuse in if you dont need it , the fuse is there for protection"
so just to clarify what you are saying is the extention lead would maybe have a higher rated fuse possibly a 5A. what i should do is use the formulae to work out what im running and what im planning to run then change the fuse to the first size fuse above my total amps right?
"what concerns me is you saying you will be using a socket run off the lighting circuit ; the lighting fuses on your meter board are only 5 Amp - if you exceed 5 Amps with your grow kit the fuse will blow..."
again for clarification if i exceed the 5 amps which is the lighting circuit which fuse will blow? do you mean at the meter? can i just push the button back in and all is well or do i need to call an elecy out ? could it start a fire?
600w light+15w oscilating fan+ 26w exhaust fan +26w intake fan +400w for future equipement = 1067 /240=4.44 therefore would the 5 amp fuse in extention would be ok? also as amp is 4.44 could it run of the lighting circuit which is 5 amp without any probs? as long as i dont exceed the amps in future
yes, if you exceed 5 Amps the fuse at the meter will blow, though if you put a 5 Amp fuse in your extension lead it would blow first (if 5 Amp is exceeded) and should stop the meter board fuse blowing...
the fuse blowing is the protection if the load suddenly exceeds the 5 amps , say if there was a short circuit , which is why you should use the next one up from your load (4.44 needs 5 amp fuse etc) - if the fuse at the meter board does go its just a matter of replacing the fuse. most meter boards (consumer units) now use a fuse which is similar to the one in a plug, only slightly longer and thicker; most shops like Centra etc keep them on the stand of 'handy items'.
sometimes the fuse carrier pulls straight out of the meter board allowing the fuse to be replaced (older type), on a lot of the newer ones the carrier is hinged at the bottom so just unclips at the top to drop open so you can get at the fuse, the best have MCB's (mini circuit breakers) which dont use any fuse.
Replacing the fuse does'nt need an electrician ; its easier than changing the fuse in a plug. if you are unfamiliar with meter boards it is better to power down your computer etc & flip the switch to turn the whole board off - replace the fuse then just switch it back on (although before putting a new fuse in you should check your equipment to see why it blew, taking out anything you think is suspect - if you dont you will just blow the new fuse too). If its a board with MCB's it does just mean flipping the switch again...
if it blows and nothing seems to be faulty (check carefully) it could be that your load is slightly higher than calculated, in which case you might need to go up 1 fuse size. the only things that would be likely to cause a fire is if say too many items are plugged in to an adapter & it gets too hot , or if damaged leads or exposed wires cause a spark - this is highly unlikely as long as you apply a bit of common sense when setting up (keeping electrical components as far from water as possible etc) & check everything regularly. As most people check their grows several times a day they will spot problems fairly much straight away - its when things are neglected that most problems occur...
in short (no pun intended) from what you describe the lighting circuit should be okay, just keep it in the back of your mind if you are expanding your set up at any point.
i know this seems a bit long winded, but i hope it answers your questions...
B.
this is the newest type on which you do just flip the switch on the MCB instead of replacing the fuse - dont need to turn the board off, but still best to check your gear 1st...
https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/2128/consumer_unit.jpg (https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/69778/title/consumer-unit/cat/2128)
What are consumer units?
Consumer units, or 'fuse boxes', come in many shapes and sizes. Modern units do not contain fuses. Instead, they contain MCBs (Miniature Circuit Breakers) which protect the wiring from overloading or short circuiting caused by an excessive amount of electrical current. They often have an additional protective device known as an RCD (Residual Current Device), which is primarily designed to help protect against electrocution by detecting any current flows to the earth. This is not a guaranteed, 100% safe protection, but it does greatly reduce the chance of an electric shock being fatal.
Mellow Yellow's sticky "Electrical 101" in the Home/DIY section probably explains everything better than i have...
B.
prits_uk2002
24-03-11, 10:24 AM
thank you for taking the time to explain it to me as safety is one of the most important factors in setting up, i appreciate it thanks. i think i got the hang of it now, ill have a look at the elec sticky that you mentioned as well.
Just few questions
1.i have a relay, timer and ballast for powering the light. do i need to add the watts off all of theese items aswell or just the ballast.
2 is an rcbo required if im changing the fuses to match the ampage or is it best to get one anyway?
3.Would the watts form the rcbo need to be included to in the ampage calculation aswell
thanks again for all the help
the watts drawn by the timer & the relay are negligable ; the ballast would be included in the wattage given for the light it feeds (info should be on label on ballast)
i would'nt think a RCBO would be required for your set up ...(tho a 2nd opinion would'nt hurt...)
good luck with your grow...
B.
bodge Thanks for the explanation that really helped.
Now for the big question... how do I read my meter? He he he, but seriously it would be a big help if someone were to simplify it.
dont forget to take into account the bulbs/lights that are on the house lighting circuit in the 1st place...
B.
prits_uk2002
24-03-11, 11:05 PM
that was going to be my next question. The lighting circuit is separate to downstairs therefore i take it i only need to look at upstairs?
Also lets say the upstairs circuit is a 5 amps could it be upgraded to a higher amount by just changing the fuse at fusebox or is that a big big big no
thanks
1 - yes, just the upstairs
2 - depends on the meter board - if its a newer type (like pic) with MCB's or fuse carriers you might have to change the individual MCB or carrier ; these are'nt expensive if you pic them up from an
electrical wholesaler, but i would'nt recommend trying to change them unless you know what you are doing (you would definitely need to turn the board off to do it)... it's not that its difficult, they usually just clip in & out, but on some boards they could be screwed to the bus-bars (main live bars in the unit) - better to get someone to take a quick look at it for you, may only be a 10 minute job but if you poke about inside the consumer unit with no experience it could be the last thing you ever do...
all in all, if you are intending to draw 5 amps or very close to it from a 5 amp lighting circuit my advise would be to forget it and run a lead from an upstairs socket somewhere discrete instead - it would save you a lot of hassle, worry & possibly expense in the long run... (+ its easier to do undo in a hurry if something unexpected crops up, or you have to move...)
sorry if that buggers up your plans but i would rather not see someone get hurt, especially if it stems from advise i have given...
Bodge.
1 - yes, just the upstairs
2 - depends on the meter board - if its a newer type (like pic) with MCB's or fuse carriers you might have to change the individual MCB or carrier ; these are'nt expensive if you pic them up from an
electrical wholesaler, but i would'nt recommend trying to change them unless you know what you are doing (you would definitely need to turn the board off to do it)... it's not that its difficult, they usually just clip in & out, but on some boards they could be screwed to the bus-bars (main live bars in the unit) - better to get someone to take a quick look at it for you, may only be a 10 minute job but if you poke about inside the consumer unit with no experience it could be the last thing you ever do...
all in all, if you are intending to draw 5 amps or very close to it from a 5 amp lighting circuit my advise would be to forget it and run a lead from an upstairs socket somewhere discrete instead - it would save you a lot of hassle, worry & possibly expense in the long run... (+ its easier to do undo in a hurry if something unexpected crops up, or you have to move...)
sorry if that buggers up your plans but i would rather not see someone get hurt, especially if it stems from advise i have given...
Bodge.
Would it be ok to run a contactor relay from that extension socket? As the recommendations usually state that contactor relays have to be connected directly to the mains, is there a reason for this?
not too sure on that one - i'll need to check up on it...
B.
prits_uk2002
25-03-11, 10:30 AM
ill have a look an the make and model of the fusebox. ive boarded the main part off my loft but left the edges unboarded. cud i run off the power that goes to boiler which is under the loft area which i aint floored ? the boiler is in use though?
ill have a look an the make and model of the fusebox. ive boarded the main part off my loft but left the edges unboarded. cud i run off the power that goes to boiler which is under the loft area which i aint floored ? the boiler is in use though?
do you mean the hot water cylinder ? - if so thats what i did, tho i disconnected the imm heater 'cos i dont use it ; if yours is in use i would'nt be sure, you would need to check what load it draws...
B.
prits_uk2002
25-03-11, 11:32 AM
its actually a combi boiler. what would be the easiest option
1. i just realised i might be able to take power from a plug in 1 off the bedrooms, however i dont want to use an extention lead. any other way off getting power from the plug upto the attic? think something spur not sure though.
2. the boiler
3. the meter, tbh i imagine this is the hardest
4 any others that are safe and come to anyones mind
prits_uk2002
25-03-11, 11:47 AM
sorry i forgot to mention is the shower circuit an option
sorry i forgot to mention is the shower circuit an option
the electric shower circuit would be ideal - it should be 15amp , tho just check its wattage if you intend to use it while your lights etc are on...
Bodge.
best way to use shower circuit would be to pull the fuse to kill the circuit, cut the wire in the loft & fit a decent quality JB (junction box), then run a short piece of good thick 3 core flex to a switched twin plug socket...
B.
prits_uk2002
25-03-11, 03:16 PM
sounds great seems i have a few options now that i will need to concider. sorry about this but using an extension maybe something i may consider now aswell would this be easier than the shower option?. can i get an extention take the plug off and the wire and get a longer wire maybe a thicker one. once ive fed the wire through the celing refit the plug on and then plug into the outlet in my room. is there any limitation on the length of the run or any other things i need to consider? again sorry for messing around my apologies thanks again
ur only looking at 3 or 4 meters for the extension if you go that route, so no problems there - just make sure you get the same thickness of 3 core flex, not the thin 2 core...
again, all in all i think the extension lead up thru the ceiling would be your wisest & safest option...
B.
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