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Doc-j
03-11-11, 01:00 PM
I have been experimenting a bit with creating seeds and would like to know from somebody with more experience as to whether or not I’m on the right track.
After purchasing seeds from various companies and noticing the variation in the same strains I wonder if stable genetics are to a degree something of a myth but I’m trying to learn more so I don’t waste time learning everything the hard way when I’m sure there must be those who already know and are willing to share the knowledge.

So far I have created some seeds by using two feminised plants, I used colloidal silver on one to create the pollen which I used on the other to create the seeds, I have only grown some of these seeds out so do not really have a very wide range of results to gather data from but so far they all turned out spot on with the same variation in phenotypes as the original fem seeds used to create the offspring.
Can somebody explain what results I’m likely to get when using feminised plants to create seeds, I am now thinking about growing another plant from the original seed stock to use as pollen for the offspring I created, I wondered if doing this would help in creating a stable harvest of seeds? Instead of using the same pollen for the subsequent grows, just keep growing plants from the original seed stock and picking the best to use as the new father?
I get confused with the whole F1 F2 thing so I’m not sure what exactly I’m creating so for the first part of the experiment when I used two feminised plants to make seeds is that classed as F1 F2 or S1? And if I proceed with the second part of the experiment and use the pollen from another feminised plant from the original stock to pollinate the seeds that have been created what would that give me?
Its a bit of a minefield trying to work things out, with so much info on the net it seems so easy to get lost, essentially what I’m looking to do is basically play around with a feminised strain until I get something consistent that I can then go on to use with other crosses I have in mind.
Anyone clear this up for me, much appreciated, I realise normally you would back cross using the same father but wondered how replacing the father each time would effect the outcome

strewth
03-11-11, 01:09 PM
When you use C/S on a female plant you are creating S1's i assume the S stands for Selfing as that is what you are doing to the plant to make it hermie and get some pollen.
When folks Self a plant it tends to be of a favorite female, and they take 2 clones from the original female, put the clones (after veg in the groom) use C/S on one female ot get the pollen and then put the pollen on the other female, in theory the seeds produced should be a very very close match to the original female the cuts were taken from.

Doc-j
03-11-11, 01:13 PM
hello thanks for the quick reply, so then the first batch of seeds created are the S1s, so if I used another fem plant from the origional seeds and created pollen to use on the newly created seeds how would that be classed? would it still be S1s?

and if I kept the male alive and pollenated the new seeds with that presumedly the next batch of seeds would be S2?

By the way these are the auto varietyies

strewth
03-11-11, 01:19 PM
Click on the red THIS in my sig mate, that should help you along a bit :)

Doc-j
03-11-11, 01:23 PM
sorry read what where? cant see sig

strewth
03-11-11, 01:23 PM
My sig is in my reply to your first post, second post down in this thread

Doc-j
03-11-11, 01:38 PM
At a glance of the info I think I'm not to far from the right track with what I have in mind,

I think what I'm trying to do according to the info is work with an ibl and by creating a new male each time that has the desirable traits it would be recurrent selection, doing this could then give me an ibl with the charecteristics I'm after.
If I then crossed the resulting plant with a different plant all together that would be an F1

does that sound about right then? or have I glanced abit to fast at the info

strewth
03-11-11, 01:41 PM
Sounds like your on the right track mate, if you look in the breeding section on here there is more info to browse through

Good Luck with your venture mate

Peace
DZ

Hillbilly
03-11-11, 06:13 PM
Only problem is every time you fem the chance of heri's is increased, I did some fems and looks like I got two Pheno's one good growing the other very slow and not much to talk about.. Even if your femming you can't get away from it's genetics it's caring that you can't see. Even with IBL if done wrong different pheno's will pop up and some times when done right they will show up but to a lesser point.

strewth
03-11-11, 06:17 PM
Agreed Hillbilly, in some strains it is not advisable to go past S3

Doc-j
12-12-11, 02:13 PM
when I grew some fem auto mazar there seemed to be two two Pheno's and again with my current experiment with auto blueberry.

so as an example at the mo I have three auto blues on the go, only a couple of weeks in and there seem to be two two Pheno's one of the plants already smells fantastic and is growing slighty better than the other two, which both appear the same and both havent a smell strong enough to describe if at all.

so I'm wondering, because in a week or two I'm going to pick one to use for pollen. now in an ideal world i'd like to grow hundreds of plants for better selection but as it is I'm limited to these little experiments. the plan was to have two of the three plants both smelling amazing and use them to make seeds with the hope that the off spring would show up a higher percentage of plants with the charecteristics I'm after. I dont suppose its as easy as that so here I am again to get other angles on what I'm doing.

so what is best I wonder, do I use the one that stands out as the pollen or would it be better to cross the two that dont smell in the hope the offspring will show up more of the smelly gorgous stuff, or should i use a not so smelly as the pollen on the one that smells? I'm asuming if I used a not smelly on the smelly the offspring would contain both pheno's which could then be used for better selection in the future.

it gets so confusing but i'm sure there must be a tried and tested aproach to such things which at the moment I'm unaware of, my head says get two plants both with amazing qualitys, breed them to make quality seeds that perhaps wont have the not so great two Pheno's, is it that simple or better to go for the long shot mixing the underdogs as it were and hope other wonderful things show up in the offspring?

Doc-j
18-12-11, 12:59 AM
well In the end i have gone with my instincts, all three plants are doing pretty good and at only day 16 with two of the plants that seem to be twins both showing there sex already, I chose one of the twins to become the pollen supply, so with one batch of seeds both parents would hopefully pass on the supper quick flowering and the other will hopefully contain more of the blue and with any luck the quick flowering also, well will have to see, not sure if my approach to this is all wrong or not but I am making this up as I go, so it wouldnt surprise me if it goes wrong.

gr33nfingers
18-12-11, 01:08 AM
When you use C/S on a female plant you are creating S1's i assume the S stands for Selfing as that is what you are doing to the plant to make it hermie and get some pollen.
When folks Self a plant it tends to be of a favorite female, and they take 2 clones from the original female, put the clones (after veg in the groom) use C/S on one female ot get the pollen and then put the pollen on the other female, in theory the seeds produced should be a very very close match to the original female the cuts were taken from.

Surely if your making the plant hermie to produce pollen then use it on a cutting from the same plant your just making hermie seeds?

TheCandyManCan
18-12-11, 02:37 PM
Surely if your making the plant hermie to produce pollen then use it on a cutting from the same plant your just making hermie seeds?

Females are females..... They do not carry male genetics so if you werre to use CS, the pollen from the female will only create female seeds when pollinated to another female.

gr33nfingers
18-12-11, 02:52 PM
Females are females..... They do not carry male genetics so if you werre to use CS, the pollen from the female will only create female seeds when pollinated to another female.

Yes i agress with another female, but he's saying the same female. " 2 cuts from same plant "

So imbred if you get me.

Doc-j
20-09-13, 09:50 PM
thought i'd update this,,

basically took auto mazar and tried to make seeds using the colloidal silver method, only it wasnt very scientific in that the offspring could perhaps have been either mazar x mazar or possibly polarlight number one mixed in there as i had one of them close by also, I'd like to have things tested one day to see if i can find out what the offspring actually are.

the result was a number of variations in the offspring, some seemed the same, some were really tall and smelly, some where really earth, some fruity, there was at least 4 different phenos,

i then took another auto mazar seed from origional seed bank stock, grew that to produce pollen and used that on a short neat little plant from my first result.

the result was basically 2 phenos very consistant, practically 100% germination rate, so yippi, some success

trouble is, although both highs are strong and it is undoubtedly a usefull addition to any herb rack only 1 is what I'd call merdicinal which is the whole point of my work to seek out that which works for me.

so a question for any of you that know, if I take a 2 of the medicinal phenos, use one to make pollen and make new seeds, what are the chances of the offspring showing only the phenotype which i find medically beneficial? proberly a long shot I guess it wont be that easy and the other phenos might pop up again in the same ratio or with any luck less.