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j4ck_fl4sh_3k
10-01-12, 01:50 PM
Does anyone here add sugar to there plant to increase yield and if you does it work? Was it be done with hydro's and do you just add normal sugar that you'd put in your tea... basically has anyone got any information.

Much Appreciated Thank You.

B.A.BARACUS
10-01-12, 01:54 PM
Hi m8, I think it's molasses you're talking about, some people add throughout whole grow, I add to the feed in the last couple of weeks of flower, it fattens up buds & sweetens taste imo.

Law Abiding Citizen
10-01-12, 01:54 PM
ye mate i use it, but its not normal suger its called blackstrap molasas. whats your growing medium first?

Anabolic
10-01-12, 02:20 PM
Hi m8, I think it's molasses you're talking about, some people add throughout whole grow, I add to the feed in the last couple of weeks of flower, it fattens up buds & sweetens taste imo.

In the last few weeks do you add it to every feed / water?

What dose?

Do you grow in soil?

B.A.BARACUS
10-01-12, 02:28 PM
In the last few weeks do you add it to every feed / water?

What dose?

Do you grow in soil?

I will be using it at a rate of 1 tbsp per 5 litres last 2 weeks, more of a flush really and a good booster, my current grow is in coco coir. :)

Sshuggyb
10-01-12, 02:31 PM
What dosage would you use and can you use it with nutes??can you use it with auto fems and would you use bloom nutes on auto!!

Anonymiss
10-01-12, 02:59 PM
If using molasses, make sure it's 'unsulphured' (contains no preservatives).

B.A.BARACUS
10-01-12, 03:03 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d5cde1a9-533f-4170.jpg this is what I use & as miss says its unsulphered.

jimmi420
10-01-12, 03:41 PM
Unsulphered black strap mollassess is more a complex sugar and is more for feeding your micro herd as it has few simple sugars in it , plain old table sugar(sucarose) is a better booster and is known as a simple sugar , your plants can only uptake simple sugars and not a complex sugars , a tablespoon per gallon will be enough.

goochy
10-01-12, 03:43 PM
I used molasses sugar not the syrup.

WUFU
10-01-12, 03:54 PM
very interesting, you leARN SOMETHING NEW EVERYDAY ON HERE

mercegue
10-01-12, 04:16 PM
and what about honney??? will it work??? its a natural sugar

jimmi420
10-01-12, 04:57 PM
and what about honney??? will it work??? its a natural sugar
Google simple and complex sugars , if you want an instant booster go with simple sugars as i said suacarose(table sugar) is best for boost or even a can of redbull which are just simple sugars ,inside your root are a band of cells called the casparian strip which everything has to pass through or get blocked and complex sugars cant pass through this cell wall , in fact nothing can pass through unless its inorganic and broken down into ions if i understand it correctly.

420Boss
10-01-12, 05:17 PM
When using mollasses do you have to have blackstrap and do you add it to the water and boil it down ( this is what i heard on a video but he was foilar feeding so i got why he boiled it down to make it able to spray out of a bottle). I was wondering cuz i got some grammas mollasses in the cupboard but its not blackstrap it is unsulphered however.

jimmi420
10-01-12, 05:36 PM
When using mollasses do you have to have blackstrap and do you add it to the water and boil it down ( this is what i heard on a video but he was foilar feeding so i got why he boiled it down to make it able to spray out of a bottle). I was wondering cuz i got some grammas mollasses in the cupboard but its not blackstrap it is unsulphered however.
Yes it needs to be unsulphered black strap mollasssess , but like i said your plant cant uptake it as its a complex sugar were as table sugar it can uptake it as its a simple sugar , mollassess is best for feeding your micro herd in your medium though , but yes your plant can take in complex sugars through its stomata by foliar feeding but only around 10 percent , i never done it just read about it.

Anonymiss
10-01-12, 05:38 PM
Yes it needs to be unsulphered black strap mollasssess , but like i said your plant cant uptake it as its a complex sugar
But can it absorb the trace elements from the molasses, I wonder?

mercegue
10-01-12, 06:05 PM
. In a study at University of Southern California, three groups of bean plants were watered with different degrees of sugar water (0 g, 25 g and 50 g solutions). The group of plants which had been watered with the 50 g sugar/water solution were not only the largest and strongest of the plants, they were also the healthiest and highest yielding plants.
Sugar Water Effect Plants..

SWEET

x-metal
10-01-12, 06:07 PM
thanks for answering the question i was about to ask

mercegue
10-01-12, 06:10 PM
i read that its not only the sugar from the molasses that pump your plant up there is other nutrients any opinion??

Anonymiss
10-01-12, 06:12 PM
i read that its not only the sugar from the molasses that pump your plant up there is other nutrients any opinion??

I think that's about feeding the micro-herd (the bacteria and bugs in the soil) rather than the plants themselves, but I imagine the plant will be able to absorb some of the other soluble trace elements.

jimmi420
10-01-12, 06:15 PM
But can it absorb the trace elements from the molasses, I wonder?
I dont know im only going on what ive read and if i understood it correctly nothing gets through that wall unless its broken down , will those trace elements get broken down eventually ?trace elements minerals etc , yes ? if so i reckon yes but im not sure .

mercegue
10-01-12, 06:17 PM
i have 2 critical growing im gonna try flushing 1 with sugar and 1 just water the last weeks what you guys think?
1 Boil one liter of water. You can do this in a microwave, or in a pot over the stove. If you do it in a microwave, make sure you use a microwave-safe bowl.
2 Add 50 grams of sugar to the boiling water and remove it from the heat. Stir until all of the sugar has been absorbed into the water.
3 Let the sugar water cool for one hour before placing it in a watering can.
4 Water your plant with the sugar water solution until the soil is damp, but not flooded.
5 Use plain water for the next two days and on the third day use a batch of sugar water. Repeat this cycle.

jimmi420
10-01-12, 06:22 PM
i have 2 critical growing im gonna try flushing 1 with sugar and 1 just water the last weeks what you guys think?
1 Boil one liter of water. You can do this in a microwave, or in a pot over the stove. If you do it in a microwave, make sure you use a microwave-safe bowl.
2 Add 50 grams of sugar to the boiling water and remove it from the heat. Stir until all of the sugar has been absorbed into the water.
3 Let the sugar water cool for one hour before placing it in a watering can.
4 Water your plant with the sugar water solution until the soil is damp, but not flooded.
5 Use plain water for the next two days and on the third day use a batch of sugar water. Repeat this cycle.
Thats all i do , i used to use mollasses until i looked into it more , i now use white table sugar and just water ,

420Boss
11-01-12, 12:45 AM
Seems to me that it doesnt have to be molasses at all but table sugar that cuts right to the chase and feeds the plant what they are going to use from the molasses anyway. (I do understand what your saying about the micr herd tho wich is different and does require that it be molasses.

jimmi420
11-01-12, 11:30 AM
Seems to me that it doesnt have to be molasses at all but table sugar that cuts right to the chase and feeds the plant what they are going to use from the molasses anyway. (I do understand what your saying about the micr herd tho wich is different and does require that it be molasses.
Yes i agree with you totally , i reckon a 50/50 mix of both sugars would be as good as any carb booster you buy .

Anonymiss
11-01-12, 02:06 PM
I wonder whether it's worth inverting the sugar to break it down into fructose and glucose, which are less-complex than sucrose and so may be absorbed even more easily.

Easy HOWTO from Wiki:
Inverted sugar syrup can be easily made by adding roughly one gram of citric acid or ascorbic acid per kilogram of sugar. Cream of tartar (one gram per kilogram) or fresh lemon juice (10 millilitres per kilogram) may also be used.

The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes, and will convert enough of the sucrose to effectively prevent crystallization, without giving a noticeably sour taste. Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by thermal means alone: two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar.

C.W.
11-01-12, 02:40 PM
jmmi has it right for the sugars. and yes they get the trace from it but there is already enough trace in our other foods and hence the name..only trace amounts are needed so adding more dose nothing. there is also a slight tiny bit of the sugar that will cross the strip to be allowed in the plant. bu the ,main reason for molasses is feeding microbes.
yes table sugar is fine. i use it when i water
all your carb boosters are Dextrose, arabinose, xylose, glucose, fructose, maltose

reason some use molasses is because its the second most pure form of sugar..alot of boosters or carb bottles already have molasses in it

C21H30O2
12-01-12, 01:03 PM
wont suguar mess up the pump on a hydroponic system if its not disolved correclty?

prime
14-01-12, 05:47 PM
and what havoc would it play with ph?

rndusername
15-01-12, 11:12 AM
At that stage of the grow would it matter that much?

Anonymiss
15-01-12, 11:51 AM
Sugar won't affect the pH.

blazefor20
15-01-12, 11:58 AM
Has anyone used sugar water earlier than the last two weeks or so for carbs? This is something I have wondered about.

prime
15-01-12, 07:20 PM
black treacle affects ph. drastically. ill have to do an experiment on sugar to confirm, as im going nft again soon.

mercegue
15-01-12, 07:30 PM
well i tryed out and got my ph up by 3 points 1 tea spoon of sugar in a 20 ml cup of water

the journey
15-01-12, 08:07 PM
i used 1 spoon of table sugar to 10 litres of water today (dissolved it first) im growing in soil and am 5 week flowering today so ill let you all know how it goes , im going to use it again when ive fed a few more times

rndusername
15-01-12, 08:07 PM
3 points, so like from 6 to 9, or from 6.5 to 6.8 ?

So that's about 5 grams, per 20ml, mentioned above to go for 50 grams per 1l, so you're about 5 times the recommended concentration ?

mercegue
15-01-12, 08:13 PM
3 points, so like from 6 to 9, or from 6.5 to 6.8 ?

So that's about 5 grams, per 20ml, mentioned above to go for 50 grams per 1l, so you're about 5 times the recommended concentration ?

from 7.4 to 7.7.. it was a 0.1 point lolol! just to check how sugar affects ph

rndusername
15-01-12, 08:17 PM
OK, so not too bad considering your concentration. Again, my point/question would be, would it really matter in the last week of the plant's life, I'm guessing it wouldn't...

blazefor20
15-01-12, 08:20 PM
I am trying it. Into week 3 of flower. Boiled one gallon water and added one tablespoon sugar and a few drops lemon juice. I let it cool for a few hours, ph'd it, and gave it to my whole grow. Will try this every other watering for a bit and see.

C.W.
16-01-12, 02:03 PM
non of my sugar product effect ph till it begin rot rot if i left it to long sitting.
last couple weeks of a plants life is when they put on the most weight so sugar does help right to the end

the journey
16-01-12, 05:28 PM
well just an update, i used the sugar yesterday in my crop and they seem to have handled it no signs of stress and they actually look a bit greener (might just be my eyes) but the buds are swelling nicely (that might be the pk i have just used) but will have to see how it goes. will post pics on sunday as they will be 6 weeks flowering then

Hillbilly
17-01-12, 03:51 PM
My outdoor grow I used Molasses all the way from start to the end, I like adding it.. I have seen people use soft drinks in a mix to feed lawns and garden plants. Think now I will add a little sugar too!!

C21H30O2
17-01-12, 04:05 PM
has any one got the mesurements part part basses e.g. 50grams per 1l of water? or what is it? thanks in advance

rndusername
17-01-12, 08:44 PM
50g per 1l of water was quoted earlier in this thread, but be interesting to see what others do........although I'm a bit worried that there doesn't seem to be that many people on here doing it......considering probably EVERY household has a plentiful supply...

C.W.
17-01-12, 08:50 PM
of what? molasses?. dont matter. shouldnt register enough to matter, more is a waste though as it wont do anything good or bad. up to 2 tablespoons to a gal for me when i used to use molasses

rndusername
17-01-12, 09:41 PM
No, not molasses, sugar, although I've no idea what "part part basses" is meant to mean ?!

C.W.
17-01-12, 10:44 PM
ya same here. sugar would be the same. dont realy matter with no ec and ph effect, just more than it can use is a waste, but wont hurt it

the journey
18-01-12, 07:34 PM
i added 1 tbs of sugar per 10 litre of water, it looks like its worked with what i saw today (first time ive seen them in 3 days) they were abit on the small side (buds) but they seem to be catching up nicely. they seem to have alot more thc dusting on the leaves and have got alot more fatter. ill take pics saturday and post before and after pics, im going to up the dose of sugar this week to 2 tbs per 10 litres and see how it goes.

C.W.
18-01-12, 08:45 PM
well its not the sugar cause that takes a while to be a food to them., plants dont eat sugar like that. some sugars take weeks to be a food

the journey
18-01-12, 08:58 PM
must of been the pk then, thought it would up take the sugars instantly to what threads ive read on here and other sites????

rndusername
18-01-12, 09:17 PM
^^ I thought that was the WHOLE point of pk 13/14 :)

I'm wondering whether to even bother with adding sugar if it takes a while, I'm on my flushing cycle now, 2 weeks to go...

Is it just me or does this seem to be one of the flakiest methods of bulking up bud, no-one seems to know the right amounts, it raises pH, it doesn't raise pH, conflicting opinions etc etc....I probably should just try it but I don't want it to do anything I'll regret this late on!

C.W.
19-01-12, 03:38 AM
i dont mean it takes weeks to begin, didnt come out right. it does start right away and slowly breaks down. im sure it helped something,

sugar at the end is good. lots of energy being exerted to finish up and alot of the weight is at the end so all this takes alot of energy and that needs carbs/sugar. if you look at alot of potassium boosters youll probably see alot of carbs and sugar sources in them. and they make claims their stuff will reswell or do that majik at the end to fatten them up. well thats what the carbs are doing...and other stuff but alot is with carbs

reason there is not set in stone amount to use as its up to a plant, as its used it will take. it does make its own carbs so how much it actualy takes from the soil is hard to say. would depend on rate of growth and use to its rate of making it.....theres alot to it...lol, but basicaly there isnt a to much amount for it, it just wont do anything if not needed.
as for ph, some molasses may if it has other stuff in it. plain old sugar shouldnt show on anything, its not a salt., only salts/solids will register ph/ec
the conflicting opinions would be from some plants where lacking it and could use it and others with no diff didnt need it then and say it dosent work, all food is like that in a way.

Bubbla
19-01-12, 04:37 PM
I think that's about feeding the micro-herd (the bacteria and bugs in the soil) rather than the plants themselves, but I imagine the plant will be able to absorb some of the other soluble trace elements.


Correct.

Everyone thinks that Molasses adds weight because it's a Carb boost. What it actually does is increase & stimulate Beneficial microbial activity in the soil, which in turn enables the plant to use the available Nutrients far more efficiently, that's what increases yield, not the fact it's like a carb boost, although that does help a little.

I saw someone say use white table sugar.... Never use White refined sugar, there are sulfides in it left over from the refining process, which will give your plants serious problems. If you don't believe me do it & see, you'll only be disappointed. As for feeding Red Bull to your plants... I'm not even going to comment !!!

Only ever use pure Unrefined molasses.

Peace

B

C.W.
19-01-12, 04:50 PM
ive done it for years and not once caused an issue. and some sugar does get in and does help. just not as some think or as much or in a way they think. and for us non organic without fungi still works to. so it does do more than just feed them.

what does the sulphide do. sulphur is a food for them so how does it harm them, its charged negative now to so it can actualy be eaten once a sulphide.

Sulphur is an element. When sulphur reacts with other substance to form a compound, it become sulphide. Sulphide is the anion of sulphur with charge of -2

rndusername
19-01-12, 05:50 PM
Not wishing to 'start anything' but can you see my point? Two conflicting opinions within two posts of each other....

But what possible harm could be done 1 or 2 weeks before they're about to get the chop?

C.W.
19-01-12, 05:59 PM
it wont harm anything. it will either work or not. i wasnt trying to start anything either. just pointing out again what some thinks happens and what realy happens. some look at them and think this is how. others actualy take it apart and test things to see how and why things do as they do. mine realy wasnt an opinion. its horticulture research.
i just try and share the fact stuff weve found over years and post it to let the user decide what to do himself based on factual info. it isnt meant to start things

rndusername
19-01-12, 08:26 PM
Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you were "starting anything", merely pointing out that I wasn't :) and the fact that the two of you illustrated my point in my post further up within two posts :p

Bubbla
20-01-12, 03:34 PM
ive done it for years and not once caused an issue. and some sugar does get in and does help. just not as some think or as much or in a way they think. and for us non organic without fungi still works to. so it does do more than just feed them.

what does the sulphide do. sulphur is a food for them so how does it harm them, its charged negative now to so it can actualy be eaten once a sulphide.

Sulphur is an element. When sulphur reacts with other substance to form a compound, it become sulphide. Sulphide is the anion of sulphur with charge of -2

I'm not sure what you're saying mate.

Are you saying that you've used white sugar for years with no problems ? I can't recall off the top of my head the exact Sulfides/compounds which are left over from from the refining process when Sugar is refined. I'm not sure any studies about negative effects of refined sugar have been done yet, but it can cause problems, that's all I'm saying. I'm not here to get into one. I can't recall the exact sulfides or compounds in white refined sugar off the top of my head, you'll just have to take my word for it.

Isn't using refined sugar against the principals of true organics ? lol

I'm sure your a clever chap, so you may enjoy reading this Study from The university of Leiden, enjoy the read but may want to put on your thinking hat on before you start....Enjoy ;) Lol

Screening of Antimicrobial Activity

https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/12086/03.pdf?sequence=16


Peace


B

C.W.
20-01-12, 04:05 PM
yes i have with plain water days. not once has it done anything bad, i cant say it had any huge or major noticable diff either
ya i dont take anyones word on anything.,.no offence its how i learn right and wrong.,
not sure what organic has to do with it. all foods use sugar in them synthetic or organic. you dont think they add synthetic carbs to the organic foods??..most of the hormones and carnbs listed are man made of natural ones.

ok i read most of that and it has nothing to do with this thread. its comparing weed and hops and fungi. were talking about carbs and other sugars.??? it didnt loose me at all but the point to it did. maybe i missed something in it but i saw nothing about molasses or reg sugar in that
of all the byproducts ive searched or forms of this ive not found any yet that say or that i know will harm a plant. if it did id think we would be sick from eating sugar as well.

well if you find the fact stuff saying table sugar is bad for plants let us know. i am curious if its something i dont know about. but sorry till i see a fact backing it then i mark it as another interwebby myth

Mr Swilly
20-01-12, 04:07 PM
What about sugar puff teas?
Tell me about the honey mummy.

Anonymiss
20-01-12, 04:12 PM
black treacle affects ph. drastically.
That doesn't surprise me too much. Black treacle conatins lots of other stuff as well as sugar.


well i tryed out and got my ph up by 3 points 1 tea spoon of sugar in a 20 ml cup of water
That does surprise me though. I was sure that plain sugar was pH-neutral, and maybe it is in plain water but reacts with other things in the nutrient solution?

C.W.
20-01-12, 04:26 PM
strange. never done anything to my ph or ec. the only time it will is if its left to ferment and it will drop ph then...sugar is natural so it cant if its plain sugar, its 7ph

Mr Swilly
20-01-12, 04:28 PM
strange. never done anything to my ph or ec. the only time it will is if its left to ferment and it will drop ph then...sugar is natural so it cant if its plain sugar, its 7ph

Me too mate.
What about sugar puff teas? All the rage in Wales for those in the know. Tempted on some crunchy nut cornflakes tbh. I don't like following the flock.

C.W.
20-01-12, 04:31 PM
tryin to stir things are ya again, enjoy

Mr Swilly
20-01-12, 04:34 PM
tryin to stir things are ya again, enjoy

No, just in a good mood and having a laugh. I am stirring a stew at the moment. Would you like some?

Bubbla
20-01-12, 05:17 PM
yes i have with plain water days. not once has it done anything bad, i cant say it had any huge or major noticable diff either
ya i dont take anyones word on anything.,.no offence its how i learn right and wrong.,
not sure what organic has to do with it. all foods use sugar in them synthetic or organic. you dont think they add synthetic carbs to the organic foods??..most of the hormones and carnbs listed are man made of natural ones.

ok i read most of that and it has nothing to do with this thread. its comparing weed and hops and fungi. were talking about carbs and other sugars.??? it didnt loose me at all but the point to it did. maybe i missed something in it but i saw nothing about molasses or reg sugar in that
of all the byproducts ive searched or forms of this ive not found any yet that say or that i know will harm a plant. if it did id think we would be sick from eating sugar as well.

well if you find the fact stuff saying table sugar is bad for plants let us know. i am curious if its something i dont know about. but sorry till i see a fact backing it then i mark it as another interwebby myth

Sorry mate, I was just being Facetious, i know it had nothing to do with what we're talking about. Got a very dry sense of humour, ignore me.

I love molasses, i am simply saying that White sugar has seemed to cause more than one person i know problems. I have tried to explain that it's shit left over from the refining process which seems to be the problem.

Back on topic: it is the increased microbial activity which increases yield. I won't say any more, why would I ? What do i know ;) pff



Peace & happy growing


B

C.W.
20-01-12, 05:25 PM
no worries dood., mine is dry humor to.
ve never seen sugar do anything bad to anyones grows untill its left to ferment. and that is the growers fault not the sugar, i see nutes burn plants but we use them and its not good. use things right and issues dont happen. i think maybe someone made a brew from their sugar mix instead of plant food...sugar n water n yeast does make booze...and it will happen if rez inst cared for right
yes i know your trying to explain what it is that harms them but you need to know what that is. i dont just say something is bad if i dont know what is bad about it....isnt bad for others

?..increased microb activity is one of millions of yield increasing items. ...so is sugar and sugar does more actualy as the whole plant is based on sugars. microbes dont do near as much as most think...unless they use dead used soil. they work...but not as the stats claim. those are tested in outdoor agri crops dead used old soil. not in bags of new stuff


im not saying this sulphide deal is wrong dood. i just cant find anything saying it is other than you. id like top know if it is true so i can adjust what i do or know, so if you do find it please post it.

blazefor20
21-01-12, 07:21 PM
If anyone is curious, its been a week and I have given sugar water three times. I am into week 3 of flower. My girls look great for it and def hasn't hurt them one bit. I will continue to use it this grow and see for myself what impact if any it has. Rather than debate or argue over it, I suggest others try it for themselves and see the results.

goochy
21-01-12, 07:39 PM
Does anyone else put molasses sugar (not syrup) in their water? I do- seems to work well.....

mp3player
21-01-12, 09:33 PM
If anyone is curious, its been a week and I have given sugar water three times. I am into week 3 of flower. My girls look great for it and def hasn't hurt them one bit. I will continue to use it this grow and see for myself what impact if any it has. Rather than debate or argue over it, I suggest others try it for themselves and see the results.

exactly what im doin and having no probs at all, thats 2 feeds with 1tsp of sugar per litre and 1tsp molasses along with feed, tent smells of candy floss after a feed..:leaf:

blue cheese
25-01-12, 09:13 AM
i use normal table sugar tate & lyle works a treat and makes them so sticky its unreal :)

Hannibal
25-01-12, 04:02 PM
Very ineresting post, I am a nubee on my second grow week 4 of flowering I am going to give it a try with half of my crop to see what difference it makes. Thanks for the info.

rndusername
25-01-12, 07:06 PM
i use normal table sugar tate & lyle works a treat and makes them so sticky its unreal :)

What quantities/ratio do you use ?

jimmi420
25-01-12, 07:11 PM
1 level tablespoon per litre , your plant will only use what it needs , white table sugar for an instant carb booster and unsulphered black strap mollasses for feeding your micro herd , maybe a 50/50 mix

rndusername
25-01-12, 07:38 PM
So not the overkill 50 grams per liter or the lesser 1tbsp per 5 liters as quoted earlier in this thread ?

Bit of background....I'm on my final week of flushing, I'm planning to chop down in a week or maybe slightly longer, can I feed them this every day ? Should I even be bothering or just use plain water ?

jimmi420
25-01-12, 07:47 PM
Yes feed them white table sugar all the way in bloom even your flush and it wont hurt them ,some say it alters the taste im not too sure but it is a carb booster which is why i use it , your plant will only uptake what it needs so your dont worry about giving it to little or too much , but i use it at 1 level tablespoon or their abouts no precision measureing involved . but dont go over board or you will be wasting sugar or maybe a can of redbull instead its all the same (simple sugars) .

rndusername
25-01-12, 07:53 PM
Sorry to labour the point, just want to make sure the method described previously is correct :

1. Boil 1l of water
2. Once boiled take off heat and add the sugar
3. Stir until dissolved
4. Allow to cool for an hour or so
5. Add to plants

Is that correct ?

jimmi420
25-01-12, 08:00 PM
if your feeding 10 litres of water add 10 level table spoons of sugar , just disolve it in 1 litre first then add to your 9 litres of water you got left , then feed it your plants

rndusername
25-01-12, 08:02 PM
I've only got 2 plants and am only feeding 500ml each per day, maybe a bit more, so around 1l per day, but I get what you're saying.

geordieshaun
25-01-12, 08:11 PM
I will be using it at a rate of 1 tbsp per 5 litres last 2 weeks, more of a flush really and a good booster, my current grow is in coco coir. :)
will you completely stop all the nutes then during this ?

B.A.BARACUS
25-01-12, 08:43 PM
will you completely stop all the nutes then during this ?

Will stop my a&b bloom feed 3/4 days before chop but still continue with molasses til the end..

C.W.
25-01-12, 09:37 PM
So not the overkill 50 grams per liter or the lesser 1tbsp per 5 liters as quoted earlier in this thread ?

Bit of background....I'm on my final week of flushing, I'm planning to chop down in a week or maybe slightly longer, can I feed them this every day ? Should I even be bothering or just use plain water ?



what is it your wanting from this carb at the end when we want food out not in..or make more at this point. cant feed anything everyday or youll drown a plant. more dosent work like that. im sure it already has enough and wont do anything now after a week of already flushing. i wouldnt bother. it might be helping by time you ready to cut it...so is a waste, wont hurt but it isnt going to do anything either. anything you might see now im sure would have done it anyways...with or without sugar now

rndusername
25-01-12, 10:10 PM
That's kinda what I thought to be honest but was going to give it a go. I haven't been flushing as such, i've been giving water and Top Max.

I don't see how I would be drowning them, they take around 1.3l every 2-3 days so I would have thought 500ml a day would be fine...?

A waste of sugar....well...that's hardly a massive waste now is it ;)

stonerman
25-01-12, 10:47 PM
Ive never heard of using sugar to increase yield. I have heard some people swear by molasses. Its supposed to fatten up the buds the last few weeks of flowering and add a sweet taste to the bud. Some people will flush with molasses.

C.W.
26-01-12, 02:08 PM
sugar dosent increase yields...it feeds fungi that makes food that might help increase yields...might. it dosent go in the plant.

Theunderdog
26-02-12, 03:01 AM
Gave this a go and it has not done any harm to my plants, however the water went white and thick but has now cleared thanks to my air stones. Is it good or bad I don't know.

Hannibal
26-02-12, 06:38 AM
I also tried this and I wasn't very happy with the outcome yes the buds seemed to have a sudden burst of growth but my reservior started to fement and the PH went down to 4.0. and it upset my plants. I imeadiatly flushed my system and my girls recovered. Is it good I would have to say not in my case maybe I had something wrong that the sugar just brought out more. we will never know.

Theunderdog
26-02-12, 11:13 PM
I also tried this and I wasn't very happy with the outcome yes the buds seemed to have a sudden burst of growth but my reservior started to fement and the PH went down to 4.0. and it upset my plants. I imeadiatly flushed my system and my girls recovered. Is it good I would have to say not in my case maybe I had something wrong that the sugar just brought out more. we will never know.

Same with my res but once i put a air stone in there all was fine in a couple of days.

420Boss
26-02-12, 11:19 PM
I finally found some blackstrap mollasses and I plan on using it towards the end, but i was also looking into trying some table sugar too.I might do the table sugar sooner as its a simple sugar and is possed to help the plant use the bloom stage nutes more efficiently then the mollasses the last couple weeks to feed the micro herd and fatten up and sweeten the buds.

ghostnavy
27-02-12, 07:34 AM
Why doesn't someone with two similar plants do a test on one of them?

Then you can form an opinion based on some real experience :)

Any offers?

Dave
27-02-12, 03:15 PM
Why doesn't someone with two similar plants do a test on one of them?

Then you can form an opinion based on some real experience :)

Any offers?

Ahh, good idea. Surely one someone has already tried on here though!?

Yet another idea i'd like to pursue. I'll add this to my list of things to do, but I can't put any guarantee on when I'll be growing out two of the same strain (probably will from cuttings if i do, to ensure same genes) in the exact same way to be able do this comparison. It'll be at least 3 months i reckon before i could give this a go but ill track this thread and check back nearer the possible time.

TheFlyingScot
27-02-12, 04:05 PM
This looks interesting, Shall bookmark =)

Hannibal
27-02-12, 08:29 PM
I'd be interested in the results of this I will follow the thread with interest, I would do it myself but have a lot going on with other experiments at the moment. Good luck with the test.

old skool toker
27-02-12, 08:38 PM
i fucking love this place.....great thread !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phaeton
08-03-12, 02:08 AM
I was waiting for that side by side to get mentioned, all else is for entertainment while the side by side grows and gives an answer.
I take them serious, but I have noticed some growers only believe the tests that agree with what they already know. Obviously the tester made a mistake if there is disagreement.

Nobody fibs and context shows who is likely to make a error copying the data. I trust any side by side done by a stoner.

No item in my groom exists without having proved better than the alternatives. Nutrients have not changed in 12 years, neither has the technology changed much. Plants use the same nutrients now as they did 7500 years ago when agriculture started. Sugar in its refined form is a recent techlogical advance. This could be a game changer if it shows an increase.

My light tests involved a clone with four years familiarity and a control for every change to keep the season correct for both plants rather than just age based. Even though it is indoor.
Unexpected results got run a second time. Suffering plants were mercy killed to make room for the next.

I want to see sugar tested, I just don't have enough expectation of positive results to run it myself.
I would love to have to eat that last statement and change my nutes, make me do it.

420Boss
08-03-12, 02:24 AM
I will try a side by side next grow cuz i only have 1 plant at the mo,but i am trying both table and mollasses on this one.

blue cheese
08-03-12, 07:51 AM
tate & lyle sugar is all i use from second week of veg till the end i used it on my last grow and what a difference i seen from the grow before that one i grow in soil so i dont know if that has anything to do with the plants reacting so well with mollases

Mr Bloom
08-03-12, 10:46 AM
tate & lyle sugar is all i use from second week of veg till the end i used it on my last grow and what a difference i seen from the grow before that one i grow in soil so i dont know if that has anything to do with the plants reacting so well with mollases

Highly, HIGHLY unlikely that adding table sugar did anything. There is a type of plant like structure that doesn't use photosynthesis and can absorb and metabolize carbohydrates from its surroundings, it's called a fungus. So if you would like to grow fungus with your plants, adding simple sugars to your nutrient solution would be an ideal way to accomplish this. While it is true that plants need sugar, they make all they need through the process of photosynthesis.
Plant roots are not designed to absorb sugar, and table sugar (sucrose) added to the water will harm or kill plants because it reduces the availability of water.
Sugar can also promote the growth of soil microbes which can also be harmful to the plant.
The sugar is only for microbes living in the soil NOT THE PLANT ITSELF! Plants can't diffuse carbohydrates accross the roots membrane, only nutrient ions.

If sugar could be used as a nutrient/feed then Garden Centres would be flooded with overpriced sugar products.

I have done the sugar test, and find no benefits. If you study your roots compared to a plant you didn't give sugar afterwards, you'll agree.

wrasta
05-05-12, 12:16 PM
Hi m8, I think it's molasses you're talking about, some people add throughout whole grow, I add to the feed in the last couple of weeks of flower, it fattens up buds & sweetens taste imo.

hi im using canna pro soil,advanced nutes , can you tell what the correct type of molasses to use and dosage many thanks ps growing bagseed hybrid some sativa dom some more indica dom please help :D

Phineasfreek
05-05-12, 12:46 PM
You want blackstrap molasses, I don't think there's a specific dose... 1 dollop / couple litres will be fine.

wrasta
05-05-12, 01:17 PM
hi new to this site hope you dont mind me butting in but i wanted to ask you a question .
my babies are at different stages of flowering in soil (some indica dom, some more sativa dom)
if i find some sugar containing sucrose, how many tablespoons or grams would you recommend per litre of plain water ?
and a guide to the ammount ie determined by the week number ,week 3 5-10g per 5L water etc
just dont want to over do it :)

Phineasfreek
05-05-12, 02:20 PM
Sucrose isn't the best carbohydrate to use really. Although a simple sugar, sucrose is made up of glucose and fructose (fructose is two glucose molecules), if I remember correctly. The main reason you would add molasses (as opposed to sugar) to your soil is to fuel the rhizosphere or microherd (the bacteria and fungi in the soil). Molasses contains high levels of various vitamins in addition to carbohydrates, which are very beneficial in that regard. If you really want to add sugar to your soil to benefit the plant, you're probably better off looking for something that is pure glucose. Glucose is the simplest form of sugar there is (C6H12O6 or CH6O if you prefer), and is about the only carbohydrate small enough to cross the root zone. Try looking in a health food shop for glucose powder - sports supplements.

As for dosage, I've used 10% w/v (weight by volume) - so 100g/litre without any problems - as for whether it actually provides any real benefit, I'm still undecided on that. I certainly didn't have any problems using a 10% solution - but that was glucose, not sucrose or fructose. My feed routine is feed/feed/water and the glucose would be added to the water. I use biobizz nutes, which already contain a healthy dose of molasses by the smell and consistency.

wrasta
05-05-12, 03:01 PM
hi many thanks dude that may work as a stand alone organic bud sweetener however as for the carb's i use carboload by advanced nutrients bit strong so i dont use much of it but it really does the job, i have been looking at the molasses but fear it would give bugs something to feed off ,as i have noticed when feeding my plants that are in soil and pots when inspecting the run off there appears to be little tiny white bugs that flick and dance on the water surface they do appear to be affecting the plants but i the same token i cant shift the little critters even if i stall a bit on watering them ie let the dry of out completely any ideas ?
many thanks

Phineasfreek
05-05-12, 03:17 PM
You need to identity them critters dude, an get rid of the feckers. Are they fungus knats? I wouldn't be adding sugar until ure sure you're clear of them otherwise ule just be feeding the bugs. They'll multiply and cause you problems. Get a pic if you can an go in the infirmary or Google image fungus knat. Neem oil, or knat off ought to do the trick.

wrasta
05-05-12, 03:19 PM
Sucrose isn't the best carbohydrate to use really. Although a simple sugar, sucrose is made up of glucose and fructose (fructose is two glucose molecules), if I remember correctly. The main reason you would add molasses (as opposed to sugar) to your soil is to fuel the rhizosphere or microherd (the bacteria and fungi in the soil). Molasses contains high levels of various vitamins in addition to carbohydrates, which are very beneficial in that regard. If you really want to add sugar to your soil to benefit the plant, you're probably better off looking for something that is pure glucose. Glucose is the simplest form of sugar there is (C6H12O6 or CH6O if you prefer), and is about the only carbohydrate small enough to cross the root zone. Try looking in a health food shop for glucose powder - sports supplements.

As for dosage, I've used 10% w/v (weight by volume) - so 100g/litre without any problems - as for whether it actually provides any real benefit, I'm still undecided on that. I certainly didn't have any problems using a 10% solution - but that was glucose, not sucrose or fructose. My feed routine is feed/feed/water and the glucose would be added to the water. I use biobizz nutes, which already contain a healthy dose of molasses by the smell and consistency.

ps im using advanced nutrients organic iguana juice bloom , obviously yours must be organic too my question is would you still flush your soil ?

wrasta
05-05-12, 03:24 PM
i think they could be springtails, springtails do not fret these are a beneficial bug. If you see these in your soil it means you have a healthy happy soil going on. Springtails are primarily detritivores and microbivores. There function in your soil is to help eat up microbes and decompose organic matter. Springtails also play a positive roll in the establishment of plant-fungal symbiosis by helping carry mycorrhizal spores throughout your plants biomass. found a video on youtube how they got there in my soil in the first place is beyond me as its canna pro soil mix bizarre

wrasta
07-05-12, 12:50 PM
has anyone ever had these bugs before ??????? are they really ok ???

Friday
07-05-12, 01:19 PM
has anyone ever had these bugs before ??????? are they really ok ???

Hi mate. Yeah iv got springtails at the mo in my 2 girls. Forest has all so got them and advised me that they do no harm. I too used canna pro soil for my 1 potting soil to start my grow and I'm guessing that that's where I got them if u used it too. They don't seem to being doing much harm but just pisses me off they are there. Mine seem to be going now as there isn't as many in my run off but they are still there.
Have a look in my diary as I managed to get some pics of them under my scope on my camera.


Friday :)

http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?64267-Fridays-Next-Adventure-White-Rhino-GHS-amp-Rocklock-DNA.

wrasta
07-05-12, 02:19 PM
Unsulphered black strap mollassess is more a complex sugar and is more for feeding your micro herd as it has few simple sugars in it , plain old table sugar(sucarose) is a better booster and is known as a simple sugar , your plants can only uptake simple sugars and not a complex sugars , a tablespoon per gallon will be enough.

hi do you think that plants can breakdown and use the sugars contained in natural fruit juices blended with plain water also possibly flavor to ?? (the stuff i intend to use is totaly natural no pre-serv's etc and would diluting the ratio to 4-1 or maybe lower) let me what you think m8 cheers ..peace:bong:

jimmi420
07-05-12, 02:28 PM
Im not sure ive looked at energy drinks too myself ,all simple sugars but they also got summink dodgey in i was told so i stuck with sugar , but your plants will only uptake very small amounts anyway but this is better than none at all , like i said before i think any simple sugar your plant can use and uptake in small amounts is better than none. look into fructose which is stored in the plants fruits which will do as a carb booster and may or may not give you a sweeter taste , were as glucose is stored in your plants leaves.

wrasta
07-05-12, 02:45 PM
[QUOTE=Friday;1069126222]Hi mate. Yeah iv got springtails at the mo in my 2 girls. Forest has all so got them and advised me that they do no harm. I too used canna pro soil for my 1 potting soil to start my grow and I'm guessing that that's where I got them if u used it too. They don't seem to being doing much harm but just pisses me off they are there. Mine seem to be going now as there isn't as many in my run off but they are still there.
Have a look in my diary as I managed to get some pics of them under my scope on my camera

hey man thanks for getting back to me ,sigh of releif haha think the drying out process seems to keep them under control didnt water my 2 girls for over a week then fed em noticed hardly any of the little mofo's :D result :bong:
my roots are seriously healthy so if anything there good little dudes in my book now .peace :bong: was really impressed with that particular soil as well

wrasta
08-05-12, 02:04 PM
Im not sure ive looked at energy drinks too myself ,all simple sugars but they also got summink dodgey in i was told so i stuck with sugar , but your plants will only uptake very small amounts anyway but this is better than none at all , like i said before i think any simple sugar your plant can use and uptake in small amounts is better than none. look into fructose which is stored in the plants fruits which will do as a carb booster and may or may not give you a sweeter taste , were as glucose is stored in your plants leaves.

hi man im trying the sucrose will keep u posted cheers dude :bong:

doctor gonz0
08-05-12, 04:21 PM
have a look into a product called succanat. its unrefined cane sugar i think and keeps all the goodness that molasses does. i havent used it yet but plan to for my next grow. apparently( i cant be arsed checking) jorge cervantes recommends it as a booster/sweetener.

gonz0

wrasta
09-05-12, 11:39 AM
have a look into a product called succanat. its unrefined cane sugar i think and keeps all the goodness that molasses does. i havent used it yet but plan to for my next grow. apparently( i cant be arsed checking) jorge cervantes recommends it as a booster/sweetener.

gonz0

hey dude!! top tip thank you bro exactly what im looking bro n1 ,my two girls are going to love this stuff keep you posted with G's per L's water

Doubie
09-05-12, 02:26 PM
No item in my groom exists without having proved better than the alternatives. Nutrients have not changed in 12 years, neither has the technology changed much. Plants use the same nutrients now as they did 7500 years ago when agriculture started. Sugar in its refined form is a recent techlogical advance. This could be a game changer if it shows an increase.

My light tests....


As a total newbie to growing, I'd be REALLY interested in what system/nutes/lights you're using! I'm a fiend for only using the very best in any situation... spending hours researching each different aspect. However, sounds like you've already done the footwork for me, and I'd be VERY grateful if I could pick your brains on it.

jimmi420
09-05-12, 02:33 PM
hi man im trying the sucrose will keep u posted cheers dude :bong:

If your using carboload theirs no need for adding your own sugars/carbs , that has them all in .Get a pk13/14 and use the last 3 weeks before you flush for a great bud boost.

Steel bangle
15-05-12, 06:43 AM
Ok after reading through this thread, I thought I better cut and paste this from my diary.


I've got some specs if anyone is interested in the break down, and its a good look into what 'chemicals' are in a natural extract.
Sucrose 36%
Invert sugar 20%
Dry matter 80%
Moisture 20%

brix 80

pH 4.5 - 7

K 3%
Ca 0.8%
Chlorides 1.5%
P 0.1%
S 0.5%
Mg 0.5%

There's also quite a large list of smaller % minerals. Pm me if your interested and I can send it to you.

I thought this might come in useful to some one designing their own nutrient solution.


To clarify molasses is NOT a complex sugar, complex sugars are those that can be digested down into simple sugars, the sugar in Mollases is sucrose,(same as white sugar) and is a simple sugar.

The unsulphured blurb is also utter bulshit, sulphur dioxide is bubbled through the sugar solution, one the risidule SO2 is in such small, almost undetectable amounts, measured in parts per million, or parts per billion.
The difference between sulphured and unsulphured sugar is in how the specifications are written, some people don't declair it on the spec because it is in such small amounts, and some people do, because even though legally, they don't have to because it's in at such a small amount, they still do, just because they bubbled it through, and they don't want to lie about it.

I'm also going to take a second to explain where the name black stap comes from.

Firstly the cane are crushed to juice them.

Then the juice is boiled up to thicken it.

Sulphur dioxide is bubbled through it (it helps make the white sugar, whiter)

Then the sticky sulphured goo I'd loaded on a spindle, and spun. In a large drum.

The white sugar, stays on the spindle, this is the main product, and quite pure sucrose, and all the shit left over forms a black strap around the drum, where it was spun out to from the spindle.

So molasses is as processed as the white sugar, it is in fact 30% white sugar. But with lots of other goodness like potasium and magnesium, please look at the breakdown at the top.

Most of the Mollases is sold into the animal feed industry, and therefor is not fit for human consumption (because strict food safety protocol and procedures, have to be followed and certified, for it to be classed as food safe)
an a little bit is sold into the distilling industry, for making gins and whiskys and rums and stuff.
And a small proportion is sold to health food shops, this stuff is the most expensive as it has to be food safe.
I hope this clears things up.

Also soft drinks are not just flavoured sugars, they have carbon dioxide added to them, which forms carbonic acid, which will play havoc with your pH.

Hope this helps.

Chronicgreen
17-05-12, 06:25 AM
i heard putting fruit juices on your compost can affect taste? has anyone used fruit juices with there water just before harvesting?

Chronicgreen
17-05-12, 06:25 AM
e.g like blueberry juices?

Steel bangle
21-05-12, 06:24 AM
Fruit juice is high in citric acid, and very acidic.
Maybe you could use it in a nute solution to lower the ph.

I've heard of people putting dry fruit, in with curing bud, I think it was on a YouTube video, and years ago I heard of someone spraying curing bud with tequila, but these are drying and curing techniques and nowt to do with growing.

Personally I would not put fruit juice on my soil, it's just too acidic. Way out of the range roots can uptake. Have you tried it and what were your results?

Mr-Lover
21-05-12, 06:54 AM
Im Coming to My Last 2weeks till Chop And Would Like to Know if it Will Be Alright to Feed Her Sugar Water till The Chop? Many Thanks MrLover

wrasta
21-05-12, 07:56 AM
Im Coming to My Last 2weeks till Chop And Would Like to Know if it Will Be Alright to Feed Her Sugar Water till The Chop? Many Thanks MrLover
hi man , i got recommended this : Rapadura is the dehydrated juice from the organic sugar cane, leaving the molasses and other trace elements. Biona Rapadura/Succanat Wholecane Sugar Organic Fair Trade 500g offers whole food sugar, capturing the sweet essence of unrefined sugar cane juice. The unique caramel flavour makes it the perfect nutritious sweetener. recommended by Jorge Cervantes,
its cheap and natural see if your local health food shop sells it peace
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Biona-Rapadura-Succanat-Wholecane-Sugar-Organic-Fair-Trade-500g-/221018711290?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Suppleme nts&hash=item3375bde4fa#ht_1355wt_1392

wrasta
21-05-12, 08:00 AM
Fruit juice is high in citric acid, and very acidic.
Maybe you could use it in a nute solution to lower the ph.

I've heard of people putting dry fruit, in with curing bud, I think it was on a YouTube video, and years ago I heard of someone spraying curing bud with tequila, but these are drying and curing techniques and nowt to do with growing.

Personally I would not put fruit juice on my soil, it's just too acidic. Way out of the range roots can uptake. Have you tried it and what were your results?

yea man i agree with you on that i did that to my first ever crop 250ml of pure organic pineapple juice to 750ml of plain water burnt the shit out my roots ended up chopping early as the plant pretty much gave up on me after feeding that to her big no no from me on that 1 as for the dried fruit i have tryed that and did notice that it had some how absorbed the aroma of the fruit however when smoking the bud i couldnt taste it so not really worth it imo
there are products out there that do a better job i got some of this from a friend used it on my last crop and it really works
http://www.generalhydroponics.com/blog/2009/01/28/introducing-pineapple-rush-floranectar/ that stuff is pretty dear so it all depends on the grower really

Steel bangle
21-05-12, 02:19 PM
Im Coming to My Last 2weeks till Chop And Would Like to Know if it Will Be Alright to Feed Her Sugar Water till The Chop? Many Thanks MrLover

In my opinion, sugar will bulk out the buds,

Basically the roots won't absorb the sugar, because it won't go through the membrane, a bit like the osmosis experiment that is done in schools, where you dip a membrane sock containing sugar syrup in a beaker of water, and the liquid in the membrane rises, because the sugar can't go through the membrane, but water will.
But microbes eat the sugar, and the roots can absorb their poo. And the poo picks up minrals (chelates) and takes them in to the roots.
In my experience, even though this is a way of giving the plants nutrients, and kind of against what flushing is about, it does not affect the taste of the buds, in a negative way the same as adding straight nutes does. I don't know why it is not as harsh, because nutes are nutes, wether from microbe poo, or from a bottle, it is obviously something beyond my understanding of the science.

ganjaskunk
26-05-12, 07:18 PM
so wot about if you were to feed them both the malasses and table suget would they get best ofd both worlds or would that be to much and cause some complications???? many thanks in advance!!!

Ganja Noob
27-06-12, 08:52 PM
Can you add sugar to a res or is it just for plants grown in pots?

Evilscotsman1888
30-06-12, 02:51 PM
gimme i got the munchies and love stew lol haha

captianzanax
30-06-12, 02:56 PM
i used to use sugar/molasses till my plants got diabetes

jimmi420
30-06-12, 02:56 PM
Can you add sugar to a res or is it just for plants grown in pots?

i wouldnt personally add to my rezz as it may get messy in your pipes etc and block them up

SallyThebitch
05-04-13, 12:20 PM
Google simple and complex sugars , if you want an instant booster go with simple sugars as i said suacarose(table sugar) is best for boost or even a can of redbull which are just simple sugars ,inside your root are a band of cells called the casparian strip which everything has to pass through or get blocked and complex sugars cant pass through this cell wall , in fact nothing can pass through unless its inorganic and broken down into ions if i understand it correctly.

Am growing in soil what sugar is best to add I have dissolved black treacle before worked quite nice red bull sounds wicked any other ideas ?

jimmi420
05-04-13, 12:56 PM
Red bull aint no good after looking into ingrediants a bit more, its got summink dodgey in it, but in soil unsulphered black strap mollasses or dextrose or tble sugar.

lhhip
05-04-13, 07:54 PM
Table sugar is not so good - it is a double sugar molecule (disacharide - I know I've spelt that wrong) Glucose is the best as it is just under half the size, more easily digested/absorbed. Even so, I don't think the plant absorbs it at all directly (tho snipping fan leaves & dipping in a good sucrose solution will actually feed the plant a bit - never heard of anyone trying it on a real grow, again you need to be careful to get the concentration right)

Either way, be very careful - sugar reduces the osmotic pressure that plants use to absorb water, use too much and you reduce the water uptake and stunt the plant. Tbh, if its micronutes & micro herd feeding, then use something like molasses (cos it has loads more bonus elements than just sugar) used at least a couple of weeks before the chop to give them a chance to get broken down.

I suspect talk of making the buds sweeter is more wishful thinking than any real effect...

B.A.BARACUS
05-04-13, 08:29 PM
Table sugar is not so good - it is a double sugar molecule (disacharide - I know I've spelt that wrong) Glucose is the best as it is just under half the size, more easily digested/absorbed. Even so, I don't think the plant absorbs it at all directly (tho snipping fan leaves & dipping in a good sucrose solution will actually feed the plant a bit - never heard of anyone trying it on a real grow, again you need to be careful to get the concentration right)

Either way, be very careful - sugar reduces the osmotic pressure that plants use to absorb water, use too much and you reduce the water uptake and stunt the plant. Tbh, if its micronutes & micro herd feeding, then use something like molasses (cos it has loads more bonus elements than just sugar) used at least a couple of weeks before the chop to give them a chance to get broken down.

I suspect talk of making the buds sweeter is more wishful thinking than any real effect...

Google Google Google..

Mr.UnclePen
05-04-13, 08:41 PM
Maple Syrup man myself.

SallyThebitch
06-04-13, 06:01 AM
Just about to buy molasses then thought I have no idea what where and when ? Am also using hesi nutes can someone enlighten me !

one stop grow shop
06-04-13, 06:09 AM
Shooting powder matey

jimmi420
06-04-13, 12:10 PM
Just about to buy molasses then thought I have no idea what where and when ? Am also using hesi nutes can someone enlighten me !
It gotta be unsulphered black strap mollasses from health food shops, 1 level teaspoon per litre

SallyThebitch
06-04-13, 12:50 PM
It gotta be unsulphered black strap mollasses from health food shops, 1 level teaspoon per litre

Thank you Jimmi am on it ! the mollasses that is ! One last thing jimmi whens best to add this? thanks hun

jimmi420
06-04-13, 12:56 PM
Once or twice a week i reckon would be ok all the way through your grow right to chop day, make sure its unsulphered or it will kill the microherd

Barbarus
02-05-13, 08:18 PM
As far as i am aware, all the boosters like topmax etc have mollases sugars as the 'secret' ingredient anyways. But i have always flushed with unrefined sugar when i done grows with BQ added JI no2 :)

My cheesus (buddah seeds) loved it!! and so did my Skunk no1's......fattest donkey's john thompsons i've ever had!

OmEgA-X1
03-05-13, 02:29 AM
I suggest using citric acid/ascorbic acid as a plant carbohydrate. Also there's some articles that suggest citric acid w/ glucose in equal parts is the way to go.

Phineasfreek
03-05-13, 07:03 AM
Neither citric acid nor ascorbic acid are carbohydrates! They are both weak organic acids. Citric acid is what gives lemon juice it's sharp taste and ascorbic acid is essentially vitamin C. All they will do is lower the pH. I would be very hesitant about using them unless you're sure you need a lower pH. What research points to using citric acid with glucose? Glucose is the most sensible option as it is the most basic of all sugars/carbohydrates and is at the heart of cellular respiration - the TCA cycle, but*molasses *is the way forward for feeding the microorganisms in the soil (mycorhizzae, etc) as it contains a lot of other vitamins (mainly B vits). * *

Gness
04-05-13, 06:21 PM
192663 what a job went in to the shop thinking moles asses then knew I was looking for blackstrap so asked the girl if they had any other kinds of THIS lol my question is this ok and by fuck its messy and stinks !

SilverSlim
04-05-13, 06:27 PM
I use that one mate and it does the job :)



Diary #1 // Organic MultiStrain - Flowering (http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?91552-SilverSlims-first-diary!)
Diary #2 // Organic MultiStrain - Veg (http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?96490-My-new-organic-grow!)

OmEgA-X1
05-05-13, 04:20 PM
Neither citric acid nor ascorbic acid are carbohydrates! They are both weak organic acids. Citric acid is what gives lemon juice it's sharp taste and ascorbic acid is essentially vitamin C. All they will do is lower the pH. I would be very hesitant about using them unless you're sure you need a lower pH. What research points to using citric acid with glucose? Glucose is the most sensible option as it is the most basic of all sugars/carbohydrates and is at the heart of cellular respiration - the TCA cycle, but*molasses *is the way forward for feeding the microorganisms in the soil (mycorhizzae, etc) as it contains a lot of other vitamins (mainly B vits). * *

Is it really necessary to specify that citric/ascorbic acid are not technically literally carbohydrates when they are critical in the utilization of carbohydrates? Using things like TCA/Citric acid cycle or krebs cycle etc etc is all well and fair, but completely useless to the average grower.

I do agree that pure glucose would be the superior added carbohydrate, however I think it would be far superior with the added citric/ascorbic in terms of utilization. This isn't even considering the added benefits of complex organic acids, which is chelation of minerals for more effective utilization.

As for your consideration of pH. I find that Ascorbic acid at the studied hydroponic dose (0.5mM or roughly 3g in a 12gal res) has little effect on pH overall. Citric acid definitely is potent on the pH change, but I find the pH depression to be temporary. What I typically do when mixing nutrients is to keep my sulfur on the low end of the range im shooting for and citric at 0, then pH down with the two until I hit the desired pH. I continue to use both as pH down until I figure my sulfur content is getting close to the high end, then I switch to purely citric until the pH is unmanageable (I tend to need pH adjustment daily with just citric). It would make sense to add equimolar amounts of glucose with the citric acid during this. I will not use phosphoric acid for pH down since the optimal range is very tight were sulfur is quite loose. When I mix my nutes I know my pH is always going to start high since I tend to use a high amount of potassium (and potassium salts are either neutral but more likely basic).

As far as feeding microorganisms and such, I agree with the concept. Many people think sterilizing the roots and medium regularly is the way to go, but this just lets more aggressive and harmful organisms outcompete the friendlies. I was actually considering playing around and using a scobey in a res (a microorganism disk used in making kombucha) but I don't know if the plants would be appreciative of up to 1% alcohol content in the res.

OmEgA-X1
05-05-13, 07:28 PM
And I have to admit I'm wrong, I'm wrong for insinuating that citric/ascorbic acid may not be -literally- carbohydrates in my previous post. Citric/ascorbic acid are 5-membered hemiacetal forms of glucose, and are both monosaccharides.

And if you're really bored,
McGraw-Hill Science & Technology Encyclopedia:
Carbohydrate

A term applied to a group of substances which include the sugars, starches, and cellulose, along with many other related substances. This group of compounds plays a vitally important part in the lives of plants and animals, both as structural elements and in the maintenance of functional activity. Plants are unique in that they alone in nature have the power to synthesize carbohydrates from carbon dioxide and water in the presence of the green plant chlorophyll through the energy derived from sunlight, by the process of photosynthesis. This process is responsible not only for the existence of plants but for the maintenance of animal life as well, since animals obtain their entire food supply directly or indirectly from the carbohydrates of plants.

The term carbohydrate originated in the belief that naturally occurring compounds of this class, for example, D-glucose (C6H12O6), sucrose (C12H22O11), and cellulose (C6H10O5)n, could be represented formally as hydrates of carbon, that is, Cx(H2O)y. Later it became evident that this definition for carbohydrates was not a satisfactory one. New substances were discovered whose properties clearly indicated that they had the characteristics of sugars and belonged in the carbohydrate class, but which nevertheless showed a deviation from the required hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio. Examples of these are the important deoxy sugars, D-deoxyribose, L-fucose, and L-rhamnose, the uronic acids, and such compounds as ascorbic acid (vitamin C). The retention of the term carbohydrate is therefore a matter of convenience rather than of exact definition. A carbohydrate is usually defined as either a polyhydroxy aldehyde (aldose) or ketone (ketose), or as a substance which yields one of these compounds on hydrolysis. However, included within this class of compounds are substances also containing nitrogen and sulfur.

The properties of many carbohydrates differ enormously from one substance to another. The sugars, such as D-glucose or sucrose, are easily soluble, sweet-tasting, and crystalline; the starches are colloidal and paste-forming; and cellulose is completely insoluble. Yet chemical analysis shows that they have a common basis; the starches and cellulose may be degraded by different methods to the same crystalline sugar, D-glucose.

The carbohydrates usually are classified into three main groups according to complexity: monosaccharides, oligosaccharides, and polysaccharides. Monosaccharides are simple sugars that consist of a single carbohydrate unit which cannot be hydrolyzed into simpler substances. These are characterized, according to their length of carbon chain, as trioses (C3H6O3), tetroses (C4H8O4), pentoses (C5H10O5), hexoses (C6H12O6), heptoses (C7H14O7), and so on. Oligosaccharides are compound sugars that are condensation products of two to five molecules of simple sugars and are subclassified into disaccharides, trisaccharides, tetrasaccharides, and pentasaccharides, according to the number of monosaccharide molecules yielded upon hydrolysis. Polysaccharides comprise a heterogeneous group of compounds which represent large aggregates of monosaccharide units, joined through glycosidic bonds. They are tasteless, nonreducing, amorphous substances that yield a large and indefinite number of monosaccharide units on hydrolysis. Their molecular weight is usually very high, and many of them, like starch or glycogen, have molecular weights of several million. They form colloidal solutions, but some polysaccharides, of which cellulose is an example, are completely insoluble in water. On account of their heterogeneity they are difficult to classify. See also Polysaccharide.

The sugars are also classified into two general groups, the reducing and nonreducing. The reducing sugars are distinguished by the fact that because of their free, or potentially free, aldehyde or ketone groups they possess the property of readily reducing alkaline solutions of many metallic salts, such as those of copper, silver, bismuth, mercury, and iron. The most widely used reagent for this purpose is Fehling's solution. The reducing sugars constitute by far the larger group. The monosaccharides and many of their derivatives reduce Fehling's solution. Most of the disaccharides, including maltose, lactose, and the rarer sugars cellobiose, gentiobiose, melibiose, and turanose, are also reducing sugars. The best-known nonreducing sugar is the disaccharide sucrose. Among other nonreducing sugars are the disaccharide trehalose, the trisaccharides raffinose and melezitose, the tetrasaccharide stachyose, and the pentasaccharide verbascose.

The sugars consist of chains of carbon atoms which are united to one another at a tetrahedral angle of 109°28′. A carbon atom to which are attached four different groups is called asymmetric. A sugar, or any other compound containing one or more asymmetric carbon atoms possesses optical activity; that is, it rotates the plane of polarized light to the right or left. See also Optical activity.

Phineasfreek
07-05-13, 07:32 AM
Hey fella

I wasn't picking an argument with you but I did find fault in your definitions, and I don't need a lesson in biochemistry, for what it's worth I spent three years studying it at university. My issue was more with the fact that it's all very telling folk to use this, to use that but if you don't tell them how much to put in - which you finally did in post #145, you run the risk of them making up toxic solutions (at least toxic to their plants). One thing i do understand are the habits of the majority of the growers on here - and for them 5ml in a litre (we're mainly - but not all - British growers on this site so to we tend to use metric measurements) wouldn't be considered an unreasonable amount to add. Yes, absolutely citric and ascorbic acids are used in many commercial additives - Bud Candy for instance, but they're used as trace elements. A 0.5mM solution is considered trace (but again if you tell virtually anyone on here to make up 0.5mM of this, 3 micro molar of that, they won't have a clue what you're talking about or how to make it - you have to specify exact quantities). So they would chuck in 5ml of acetic acid into their 5ml /litre of molasses.

You're talking hydroponics, where the utilisation of mycorrhizzae and trichoderma aren't common place and are their effects often nullified due to the high nutrient dosages used - if not killed by the addition of peroxide or other oxidising agents. But there are many soil and organic growers, or even folk like myself who grow in coco, hydroponically but add mycos etc and feed at lower dosages (I've rarely gone over 1.2EC) to maximise on the benefits of friendly microorganisms.

Historically, much of the discussion about adding sugars has centred around what folk can use - table sugar, orange juice, coca cola, red bull, etc, etc - I've been horrified at some of the suggestions. This is why I tend to tell people to use either unsulphered molasses, because it's about the safest and most generally beneficial, or glucose because it's the most basic of all the sugars, the sugar upon which all others are based and because it's the one sugar that can be uptaken by the roots and cross the plant's cell membranes.

rapid7
07-05-13, 07:59 AM
i tried using just normal sugar all it did was harden up my coco over the week till it took a few minites for the water to even get through the top of the coco i really dont the sugar thing does much i do use molases and did so side by side and the molasses ones looked abit better

OmEgA-X1
07-05-13, 05:34 PM
On the 0.5mM concentrations, for citric/ascorbic acid, that equates to 3.3g/12gal for me. Personally like I said I avoid citric and side with ascorbic since the pH flux with citric is incomprehensible sometimes, however I have read that plants can better utilize glucose with an equimolar concentration of citric acid (for our purposes, lets just say same weight) due to one oxidizing the other in some beneficial fashion. I'm actually in the process of replacing my ascorbic acid usage with calcium ascorbate, since tomatoes (yea, I grow tomatoes, lol) are much more calcium intensive and I want to phase out CALiMAGic with that calcium carbonate their genius formulator decided was the cheapest option. That also points out the other issue I have with citric. Citrate ions in even small concentrations (I think you could get away with 0.5mM) will precipitate out the damn calcium! Ascorbate ions are generally extremely soluble (Calcium Ascorbate is soluble up to about 520g/L!).

I've never tried the molasses thing. Heck I'm just now getting into the swing of things trying to promote a healthy symbiotic medium and avoiding sterilization.

To rapid7: Sucrose (table sugar) isn't really the best way to go. The solubility of it is great, so I'm surprised you have any sort of deposition of it. My guess is that the medium isn't being flushed regularly, but then again I've never used coco to grow so I can't be too helpful on that.

TempWoog
12-05-13, 10:02 PM
How much mollases is needed to be added per a liter of water ?

rapid7
12-05-13, 10:10 PM
i use 1 heaped spoon to 4ltr of water put it in abit of boiling water first tho to melt it down

wrasta
21-05-13, 11:19 AM
hey guys not been on for a while thanks for all the comments some interesting stuff there :D
since i have started my test try'd a few different products even fruit sugar which worked to a degree but it gave me fizzy nuets lol not good ,however there is one product i have found to be really good is tnc molasses comes in a canna style bottle so is easier to use and its un-sulfured etc etc get it in most good grow shops or flea bay but i must say its by far the best product i have used for packing on lots of weight ,seemed to help my mates plants out a lot too as his were coco and a difference could deffinately be seen in the plants after man good shit imo XD
so i would deffinately rate tnc molasses but as always what works for one person might not work for another so just try it and find out

grend69
21-07-13, 07:54 AM
I use mollasis one tea spoon 800 mills hot water stir well then add that into 40 litre barrels leave 24 hours/48 hours then top up my nft system it works well 2 nd week into flower then Ouse bloom nutrients next feed only then following feed is just bloom booster / overdrive . Then back to bloom only / mollasis .

Mr.UnclePen
05-08-13, 02:20 PM
i'm going to start feeding a 50/50 mix of white sugar and maple syrup at week 3-7 of flower. we sha'll see what happens. it's hydro / coco.

grend69
05-08-13, 02:24 PM
Just go shops buy some Mollasis and while ya there get some Epsom salts mix 4 table spoons in 25/ litre mix . Watch and be shocked put s Pk 13/14 to shit expensive shit with only 5% chemicals in it 95% water . Check all ya feed bottles theirs no more than 8% nutrient rest water . Piece

Legayo
02-09-13, 07:27 AM
Google simple and complex sugars , if you want an instant booster go with simple sugars as i said suacarose(table sugar) is best for boost or even a can of redbull which are just simple sugars ,inside your root are a band of cells called the casparian strip which everything has to pass through or get blocked and complex sugars cant pass through this cell wall , in fact nothing can pass through unless its inorganic and broken down into ions if i understand it correctly.

It's doesn't make any sense,
The roots absorve only ions you said, but simple table sugar doesn't brake into ions while dissolved in water. It's dissolved due to hydrogen bonds.
Please explain.

*p's.
Sorry if it considered to be some sort of a bump.

varmint
05-09-13, 06:06 AM
Yes without question, the trace elements of iron, calcium, and potassium are absorbed by the plant.

varmint
05-09-13, 06:13 AM
Bubba I believe you know more than what you are saying, I have read plants do not take up plain sugar, you have to use frutose or some shit. I just use black strap molasses and have never had any problems.

foopa
05-09-13, 11:16 AM
5ml of acetic acid into their 5ml /litre of molasses
What does this create exactly phineas a home version of bud candy?
Glucose you recommend for easy plan assimilation when trying to give a carbohydrate boost?

ropeadope
17-10-13, 07:52 PM
Advanced nutrients bud candy...... It does everything ur all saying/not saying sugar does, makes the plant sticky and smell great everytime, 1 litre will last the entire bloom, well worth £45

Hannibal
17-10-13, 07:54 PM
Advanced nutrients bud candy...... It does everything ur all saying/not saying sugar does, makes the plant sticky and smell great everytime, 1 litre will last the entire bloom, well worth £45


Better off spending about £6 a kilo on fructose powder. works just as good IMO

ropeadope
17-10-13, 07:55 PM
Advanced nutrients bud candy...... It does everything ur all saying/not saying sugar does, 1 litre will last the entire bloom, well worth £45

ropeadope
17-10-13, 08:13 PM
Dnt know wat went on there, an av created a product that works theres more than just fructose in bud candy n i dnt have the time to recreate it or pretend im some scientist, the product works n worth every penny

BudMan
18-10-13, 01:58 PM
I use tate n Lyles black treacle. 1 teaspoon per 20l. From 2nd week of flower onwards.

Even use it through the flush. Done side by side test grows and it deffo makes a difference.

Dr Plough
04-11-13, 09:14 AM
Ill be giving black strap a whirl on my next project , in the final stages when I'm on just ph d water would I be right in still adding the molases till the chop to give me the sweet sticky effect ?