Homemade Oil

[bigballs]

Twas a Sunday evening and BB was feeling a bit bored and had been talking to Dred about oil in the chatroom....hold on a mo i've got some trim :D
I can feel a scavenger hunt coming.............

Water bottle, cheesecloth, pyrex dish, butane (gas burner refills), bit of old red cable and razor blades. oh and lots of dry trim :weed:


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2508.JPG

First things first. put the trim in a food processor and turned it into dust, cut the bottom off the bottle and loaded it with powdered trim.


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2506.JPG

Double thickness cheesecloth was secured to the bottom with the old red cable. turned the whole thing over and tapped it down to the cloth end of the bottle, we were in business :barmy:


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2509.JPG

At this point i thought i best put my spliff out and open the back door a tad, if you do have a go use your head cos this stuff burns quiete well. Outside would be safest place to do the extracting but the weather was shit last Sunday. Anyways let the butane flow till it starts running out the bottom of the bottle clear this took about 2 cans of gas


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2510.JPG

A bit of plant material got pushed through, not too much tho, but you end up with a dish of liquid butane and oil. To speed evaporation i placed a bowl of hot water under the dish, which is warm enough to make the liquid butane boil


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2511.JPG

https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2517.JPG

And the oil is left behind......muhahaha


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2519.JPG

Use the razor blades to scrape up the sticky goodness and ended up with this


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_25221.JPG

Then as i use it, i warm it on a knife to bubble off any remaining gas and smear it on baccy to roll a joint


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_25261.JPG

Thanx for the inspiration Dred and Festa84 for holding things in the photos

[Dredlock]

EXELLENT PICS EXELLENT PRODUCTION 1st Class oil there BUD!!!!! dam it im drivin up LoLOLoL


P.S forgot to say wrap summink around the vessel with greens in it as the dam thing gets so cold ya hands stick to it lol but i think you was doing just fine lololool

[THC Angel]

Nice1 BB :D well done mate

[THOMAS CHONG]

m8 that stuff looks DANGEROUS LOL, well done m8:yeah mate:

[bigballs]

Cheers guys, you are not wrong Tom it is dangerous makes me cough everytime, even taking weeny baby tokes of it still makes me cough when i exhale but the stone is wicked, i felt really mongified off it.
Definately glad i gave it a go, i'm going to find some better bits for next time i do it, i think a longer, thinner bore tube so the butane has to travel over more green to get to the end would improve effiency and a better screen at the bottom

[Monobrow]

cant wait to make some of that!!!!!!! looks the bollox

[cocohead]

Which type of gas did you use?

[GSXRnutter]

Which type of gas did you use?

You use butane gas, bb did put it in there somewere.

[bubbs]

yea it was butane camping gas :D

[floral meristem]

Twas a Sunday evening and BB was feeling a bit bored and had been talking to Dred about oil in the chatroom....hold on a mo i've got some trim :D
I can feel a scavenger hunt coming.............

Water bottle, cheesecloth, pyrex dish, butane (gas burner refills), bit of old red cable and razor blades. oh and lots of dry trim :weed:


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2508.JPG

First things first. put the trim in a food processor and turned it into dust, cut the bottom off the bottle and loaded it with powdered trim.


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2506.JPG

Double thickness cheesecloth was secured to the bottom with the old red cable. turned the whole thing over and tapped it down to the cloth end of the bottle, we were in business :barmy:


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2509.JPG

At this point i thought i best put my spliff out and open the back door a tad, if you do have a go use your head cos this stuff burns quiete well. Outside would be safest place to do the extracting but the weather was shit last Sunday. Anyways let the butane flow till it starts running out the bottom of the bottle clear this took about 2 cans of gas


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2510.JPG

A bit of plant material got pushed through, not too much tho, but you end up with a dish of liquid butane and oil. To speed evaporation i placed a bowl of hot water under the dish, which is warm enough to make the liquid butane boil


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2511.JPG

https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2517.JPG

And the oil is left behind......muhahaha


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2519.JPG

Use the razor blades to scrape up the sticky goodness and ended up with this


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_25221.JPG

Then as i use it, i warm it on a knife to bubble off any remaining gas and smear it on baccy to roll a joint


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_25261.JPG

Thanx for the inspiration Dred and Festa84 for holding things in the photos

how much leaf?

[Mr Spliffy]

Thats top that BB man could u leave it out for a week say to let the gas evaporate?

I'm bit clumsy but wanna try this shizzle!

Oh yh its ok i just read back lol im buzzin lol i was avin visions of holding the gas near a cooker 2 evaporate it for a min then lol but yh seen as hot water cant cause a fire i think i be ok lol

How much trim did u use?

Kudos 4 the post gd work guys

[GAMBINO]

cant beleive i never saw this before top thread bb


should be a sticky (im sure there was a sticky smiley i cant seem to find it tho)

[popefull27]

isnt this very similar to putting your trim in alcohol,and straining and then evaporating and collecting the oil

[Dredlock]

Thats top that BB man could u leave it out for a week say to let the gas evaporate?

I'm bit clumsy but wanna try this shizzle!

Oh yh its ok i just read back lol im buzzin lol i was avin visions of holding the gas near a cooker 2 evaporate it for a min then lol but yh seen as hot water cant cause a fire i think i be ok lol

How much trim did u use?

Kudos 4 the post gd work guys

to make a couple a grams of oil you will need leaf from a couple a good sized plants, dried and powder it for best results, and yeah longer you leave it the better it becomes, but you can easily smoke some a couple a hours after extraction :) hope that helps a bit:)

[Hastings]

how do you smoke it and how does it smoke?

[Mr Spliffy]

I remember buying this stuff at 10 pound 4 a gram and it would come stuck on a rizla a nic smear down ur joint and it hits ya although its kinda tricky rolling with it on the skin thanks dred & BB

[OldSkoolDude]

Just something to add..

Try and get the clean butane (the stuff you get for those jet flame lighters) as it will make the oil a lot cleaner. I used to use a scaff pipe as the container and it used to get fucking cold...

[Dredlock]

how much leaf?



LoLOLoL ok weights an measures...


lets make it simple 1 ozz a leaf....
5 cans a butaine {ronson is a clean burning fuel...}

follow BB's instructions and you should pull 2 grams a oil nicely....

If you wanna take the process one step further collect your pollen store it safe... When you have made ya oil and its ready to use, take out your pollen and use 1 drop of oil and mix with ya pollen, keep adding pollen to it until it makes a ball, keep folding it in onitself and adding pollen until you can play with it in your fingers, this is called JELLY HASH!! pure mashup... looks like a nice bit a squidgy :)

(for the more hardened toker)

[Mr Spliffy]

I've seen a few vids on the tube where the oil looks like its hardened and not actually oil!!!!!!!!!!!

Do u have 2 go thru a next process to get it to actually oil or when u scrape it off the bowl is it like say peanut butter or summin lol

Also is it worth gettin a honey bee only £25 or would u get just as much this way?

Cheers in advance

[bigballs]

isnt this very similar to putting your trim in alcohol,and straining and then evaporating and collecting the oil

Tis exactly the same principle, just a different solvent for dissovling the THC


how do you smoke it and how does it smoke?

I smoke it in joints, get a blob heat it up on knife so it runs down the blade then smear it on to tobacco, there is a knack to it :D Its a real heavy couchlock kind of stone


Just something to add..

Try and get the clean butane (the stuff you get for those jet flame lighters) as it will make the oil a lot cleaner. I used to use a scaff pipe as the container and it used to get fucking cold...

Definately worth getting some decent gas if you going to the effort. I used what I had to hand but I'm told London gas available at Poundland is a very clean gas to use :D

I hadn't realised the renewed interest in this thread, thanx for your comments guys and Dred for answering peeps questions in my absence, he is the Oil Miester anyways :D

[Father jack]

Again i never knew this was here :D

BB is like thc's own kim will fix it lol

[bigballs]

Again i never knew this was here :D

BB is like thc's own kim will fix it lol

What can i say Jack, i just love experimenting :D
Have made canna butter, oil and bubble and i gotta say they all have their merits :leaf: the main one being its like free stuff.

I love the trippy, spaced out feeling from eating stuff with canna butter in, then smoking as usual. Best recipes for this are anything that has a high butter content flapjacks are good, but Bubbs' canna shortbread is knockout stuff

Oil is the ultimate smoke as far as strength goes (i know budda is stronger but you can't make that at home) a real heavy, monged out stone usually plenty of coughing involved too, definately not first thing in the morning material. Its smooth enough going down but gets you on the exhale. The one drawback with oil is its a bit fiddly/messy skinning up with it, involves a lot of concentration and can go wrong so easily :blush:

Bubble is my fave by-product of weed growing by far. It has a very similar taste to oil but isnt quiete as strong stone-wise although the 25 micron hash aint far off, its too sticky to roll sausages with,a very heavy, monging stone. The 73 is ok to roll sausages with if its not too warm, its still a heavy stone like red seal black on steriods. Its a bit smoother on the chest too, not so scary exhaling :D

[bondsam123]

Excellent job.
Awesome Photos shared by you.Please keep sharing in future.
Thank you so much fort his Post.

[EvilEva]

making BHO is a lot of fun, and the high from smoking the hash oil is such a nice feeling. I would recommend using a stainless metal, or a copper instead of the plastic tho. I use copper tubing, but you can buy a steel turkey baster, which is supposed to work wonderfully!

[dragonsilverlights]

Twas a Sunday evening and BB was feeling a bit bored and had been talking to Dred about oil in the chatroom....hold on a mo i've got some trim :D
I can feel a scavenger hunt coming.............

Water bottle, cheesecloth, pyrex dish, butane (gas burner refills), bit of old red cable and razor blades. oh and lots of dry trim :weed:


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2508.JPG

First things first. put the trim in a food processor and turned it into dust, cut the bottom off the bottle and loaded it with powdered trim.


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2506.JPG

Double thickness cheesecloth was secured to the bottom with the old red cable. turned the whole thing over and tapped it down to the cloth end of the bottle, we were in business :barmy:


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2509.JPG

At this point i thought i best put my spliff out and open the back door a tad, if you do have a go use your head cos this stuff burns quiete well. Outside would be safest place to do the extracting but the weather was shit last Sunday. Anyways let the butane flow till it starts running out the bottom of the bottle clear this took about 2 cans of gas


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2510.JPG

A bit of plant material got pushed through, not too much tho, but you end up with a dish of liquid butane and oil. To speed evaporation i placed a bowl of hot water under the dish, which is warm enough to make the liquid butane boil


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2511.JPG

https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2517.JPG

And the oil is left behind......muhahaha


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_2519.JPG

Use the razor blades to scrape up the sticky goodness and ended up with this


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_25221.JPG

Then as i use it, i warm it on a knife to bubble off any remaining gas and smear it on baccy to roll a joint


https://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_25261.JPG

Thanx for the inspiration Dred and Festa84 for holding things in the photos

:smokie:good job me and my bro did some and man the stuff,s wicked, i found the longer u leave it the sitcker it got (not so runn)think its got time to settle and get rid of any remaing water that was traped within it. was best left for 2/3 days i found even tho i will say will had to try it straight away lol check this out https://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?t=15254 :smokie:good luck god bless



:smokie:fact not fiction:smokie:

[marleystan]

He not called BigBalls for no reason hey! lol

This should not be done inside or where there is electric components that can trigger a spark that will blow up your face.
Also wear gloves or you can get frostbite.

Anyone doing this for the first time should look into other peoples videos & info to see how they do it and how you can do it the safest way.

[bertie]

Not having a dig here, but this seems a waste of time to me??

Why not just smoke the dry clippings as they are? instead of trying to extract oil and making it taste foul with gas.. Since the clippings already contain the oil wouldnt it get you just as stoned plus better tasting?

I dont get it with making hash lol!

[dragonsilverlights]

:smokie:
Not having a dig here, but this seems a waste of time to me??

Why not just smoke the dry clippings as they are? instead of trying to extract oil and making it taste foul with gas.. Since the clippings already contain the oil wouldnt it get you just as stoned plus better tasting?

I dont get it with making hash lol!
its deffentley not a waste of time thats without a dout we have had some very nice smoking oils that makes it worth doing me and my bro only use shade leaves ,,,laugh all you want, i did at 1st untill i saw and tryed his result and yes it was a grt result,, ask him about it he can go into more detail if you are intrested best types of gas ect::smokie:good luck god bless:smokie:
why waste shades when u can extract the last of the oils from your plant

[bubbs]

Not having a dig here, but this seems a waste of time to me??

Why not just smoke the dry clippings as they are? instead of trying to extract oil and making it taste foul with gas.. Since the clippings already contain the oil wouldnt it get you just as stoned plus better tasting?

I dont get it with making hash lol!

just a few words for you :) Harsh as fuck...... trim that is ;)

[SBTUK]

just a few words for you :) Harsh as fuck...... trim that is ;)

lol bubbs you tell him! sorry but that really tickled me how dare he question my hubbys oil:), believe me if BB makes this oil it will be well worth it:stoned-smilie: Ive shared a spliff or two of his bubble hash & it knocks yer socks off,his how to guides are always easy to follow, next time save yer trim have a go you wont be dissapointed m8

[forrest_lurker]

ive gotta giv this a go, smoked oil once b4 and it is strong shit man, im gonna try drilling a hole in the bottom of a glass beer bottle and using coffe filters on the other end, ive heard that Colbri is a good clean butane to use, sweet anyways

[Blueberryog]

BB what other uses have you found for it? If you had enough oil couldn't you make true thai stick buds?

[chroniccouple]

real easy way to make yourself some couchlock oil

[andie]

very nice love the pics

[budd]

didnt the camping gas smell of farts the 1 i used left a stink to it

[Skunk Brother]

I use a honeybee extractor. Same thing basically. But I use enough to cover to half of knife.
Shit gets u blasted man. Been smoking it for couple weeks now.
Got about 20 empty cans out back lol

[alexsm]

I have a great purging method that I use on my BHO. I'll have to make a thread tomorrow with my method. I also use a glass extraction tube and that makes a huge difference.
See ya tomorrow kiddies!

[Mr.UnclePen]

You really shouldn't extract inside.

btw turkey basters work very well.

Oil is mostly "dabbed", look into it. There is a huge movement in the States towards oil.

[alexsm]

I know it's not a nail and dome but this is what I dab off of.
198370

[the hashashin]

You really shouldn't extract inside.

^^^^^^ I can't believe no one said this till you...:confused::mad::eek: You can DIE... you can BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN... so don't be a dickhead! Tane is heavier than air... It settles too mutch in a room and BOOM.....

I will be hopefully making wax for the first time hopefully soon (made bho before, just not wax grade) wax is when hopefully their is absolutly no tane left...

Yours does almost for sure. No offense, You need to heat it while at a vacuum. You will see is how much is left.

Use at least 5x refined tane. its more pricey but your lungs will thank you. Different ppl like different brands. Slightly different flavors to em.

Plastics are dissolved by tane and result in something called parabens in your product... Stick to glass or stainless steel their all right on with the turkey baster... Clean your tube every time or one day it won't taste good...

Uhhhhh that's all for now I suppose... I'll prolly make a thing if no one else makes one for wax once I get it:cool:

Also theirs something better FYI... Same process with co2... Stronger... Cleaner... Miles over my head:p

Oh yea and this is a proper oil rig... Sorry about the shitty pick I'm going to bed wile I right this...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/29/ehyzy3uj.jpg

[jericho]

Found a glass rolling pin in a charity shop, so may have to give this a go.
277068

[CharlesRiverRat]

I'm bumping this sticky as I'm interested in starting a conversation about making homemade oil or thc concentrate.

There are many methods (CO2, Butane, Propane, Ice, heat press) of THC extraction and many forms of resulting concentrates (hash, wax, shatter, crumble, oil, rosin) that can be vaporized, dabbed or smoked. In material like RSO, the THC is decarbed and can be spread on toast.

I'm mostly interested in rosin made from a heat press. I purshased an electronic heat press from China (arrives next week) and I'm going to be pressing rosin with my first harvest next month. Anyone have any experience pressing rosin in nylon rosin bags? I'm mostly interested in learning the best flower prep and rosin bag packing methods. There are a lot of pressing videos online but none really cover the flower prep process well. Any help is greatly appreciated.

- Chuck

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[camkush]

I'm bumping this sticky as I'm interested in starting a conversation about making homemade oil or thc concentrate.

There are many methods (CO2, Butane, Propane, Ice, heat press) of THC extraction and many forms of resulting concentrates (hash, wax, shatter, crumble, oil, rosin) that can be vaporized, dabbed or smoked. In material like RSO, the THC is decarbed and can be spread on toast.

I'm mostly interested in rosin made from a heat press. I purshased an electronic heat press from China (arrives next week) and I'm going to be pressing rosin with my first harvest next month. Anyone have any experience pressing rosin in nylon rosin bags? I'm mostly interested in learning the best flower prep and rosin bag packing methods. There are a lot of pressing videos online but none really cover the flower prep process well. Any help is greatly appreciated.

- Chuck

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
I had a heat press when I lived with a buddy a year ago, we didn't use he bags tho. His was block shaped where the bud went and we placed wax paper on bottom and on top of bud and it made the wax stick to it. I found using fresh frozen bud gives the best flavors, but cured of the same strain can be more potent in my experience and opinion of course**. I'm not sure if your machine makes you use the bags but wax paper worked like a charm for us, and that's how I have seen them using in Colorado dispensaries in the past. Hope this helps a little buddy

[CharlesRiverRat]

Thanks man! I've only pressed a little flower from a dispensary so far with limited yield and quality. The flower itself wasn't great but I picked up various micron rosin bags online.

Today I defoliated the popcorn of my first grow. That's in the freezer now. Tomorrow I will make bubble hash and then will press that. I'll post pics here after.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[CharlesRiverRat]

Here are pics from my first bubble hash making adventure today. Not enough yield to press but good practice. I microplaned it after putting it in the freezer for a bit. I'll sprinkle it in a joint at some point.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171103/406e4cbd9aa0cb7b49186c6b6f84e7ec.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171103/8f5c68c2573a4a0d144f9dd113999cfd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171103/53eda2421cc9c5fc7882b6f388d09484.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171103/6a85e8e45d4e5e9424663fd94155fdc7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171103/97a880910d9b65cae00b45476a81a606.jpg

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Stillmix]

Just some oil I made today.

https://duckduckgo.com/?kae=d&k1=-1&kad=en_GB&kf=fw

It’s not the best I’ve made,it will suffice till I make some t/m.
With having nothing today & being in pain I just wanted a bit to last till I make some more t/m.

It’s ok thought tastes nice & is pretty strong.

[Cannabug]

Nice work stillmix.
I'm sure the house had a nice aroma floating around it :pps:

[Farmer Geddon]

The usual ways of smoking oil seem very wasteful to me. Far too much of it goes into the air compared to what hits the lungs.

What I do is warm up the Pyrex bowl with a 2nd bowl of hot water to get the oil less viscous. Then I scrub the Pyrex bowl clean of oil using dry, not fresh, hand rolling baccy. Taking care not to mix water and baccy.

It turns into a horrible gooey mess and looks disgusting. I keep adding dry baccy until it is almost but not quite dry enough to roll up. After leaving overnight, it should be dry enough to smoke. If not, I mix in more dry baccy and wait another day.

Very economical. 1 roll up a day will be enough for most middleweights. Smoke it at noon, still buzzing at midnight. As in not just stoned, buzzing. Back when I was toking an eighth a day, I couldn't manage more than 2 oil ciggies a day and it wouldn't cross my mind to have a spliff.

While smoking it, the paper would turn black. I'd recycle the stumps and tear up the black Rizla as well. Waste not, want not. :)

[Stillmix]

The usual ways of smoking oil seem very wasteful to me. Far too much of it goes into the air compared to what hits the lungs.

What I do is warm up the Pyrex bowl with a 2nd bowl of hot water to get the oil less viscous. Then I scrub the Pyrex bowl clean of oil using dry, not fresh, hand rolling baccy. Taking care not to mix water and baccy.

It turns into a horrible gooey mess and looks disgusting. I keep adding dry baccy until it is almost but not quite dry enough to roll up. After leaving overnight, it should be dry enough to smoke. If not, I mix in more dry baccy and wait another day.

Do you use tweezers or something to mix it up.
I keep coming back to my fingers are going to be covered in oil it would be great for my arthritis :)
However I’m sure you know how to do it so there not soaking in oil hence asking.

[Lowrollerbean]

Just some oil I made today.

https://duckduckgo.com/?kae=d&k1=-1&kad=en_GB&kf=fw

It’s not the best I’ve made,it will suffice till I make some t/m.
With having nothing today & being in pain I just wanted a bit to last till I make some more t/m.

It’s ok thought tastes nice & is pretty strong.

What did you use for this mate? I've recently been dabbling in making some rso, using around 100g trim with 1 liter of iso returning only around 3-5g....what's your method mate?

[Elias]

What did you use for this mate? I've recently been dabbling in making some rso, using around 100g trim with 1 liter of iso returning only around 3-5g....what's your method mate?

Trim doesn’t give a great yield. But flowers you should expect 3-4 grams per oz

[Farmer Geddon]

Similar to using a paper towel to clean up grease. The towel gets scrunched up and the part furthest from our fingers is used to scrub the grease away. As the baccy loaded up and the oil got closer to my fingers, I'd add more baccy. The only messy bit was mixing the last bit of the baccy.

I've got a recipe for arthritis cream. Tested on and approved by a grandmother. :)

I'll start a thread for it.

[Stillmix]

That was the last bit of oil I made in a rice cooker with Bud,leaf & isopropyl
you can use other organic compounds Instead of isopropyl.

Wearing a mask and making sure the place was aired well

I didn’t decarb that bit,just simply mixed it with iso for a very short time.
Filtered it with coffee filters. Let it sit on my window sill till enough chlorophyll had dispersed and poured it into a jam jar witch I put in the rice cooker witch was filled with water.
Imo rice cookers work and are very easy,they don’t give the best oil though as you can’t control the temperature enough.
They still make strong oil Depending on what you start with & how long stuff mixed for.

You might find quick wash made oil is probably preferred way and obviously decarbonisation.

It use it for med reasons.
My methods recently changed now doing it in a still.
roughly the same method bar decarbing it sometimes,somtimes I don’t due to the smell even if I do decard in jars in my oven it can still smell some and my neighbour is as stiff as a board

[Stillmix]

Oh I think I misunderstood the question what did I use it for
Not sure but you might have asked because I mentioned arthritis.
I use it to smoke it helps you enjoy life lol let alone the many med problems I use it for.
I’ve must admit I tried rubbing some on my wrist twice it does help esp as I can’t take anti inflammatory’s too much oil to use it like that.

[Valentina]

I’ve must admit I tried rubbing some on my wrist twice it does help esp as I can’t take anti inflammatory’s too much oil to use it like that.

I have wrapped my hand with cling film (saran wrap) and taped that up, left on for over night, and the join pains went. It's a little PITA, but the pain is more of a PITA.