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Thread: First ever grow hydro with autos - bought ages ago - loads of questions still :)

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    Default First ever grow hydro with autos - bought ages ago - loads of questions still :)

    Hi all

    So I've been a looonnnnnggg time lurker, on and off for several years. now has finally come the time to grow my own.

    A few years ago I bought a load of kit, including seeds (I hope these are still ok) but for personal reasons never got round to doing it and it got locked away

    Finally have the chance to be able to do it. I've sort of got my head around lots of it, but still confused at a few things, that, and I need to maybe plan my layout a little bit better, working with the limited space I have

    I'm not green fingered by any stretch of the imagination so any and all help is appreciated

    I've smoked very little in my life, dont know sources to get any, but do need some for high anxiety with work pressures etc and to help ease the back ache etc

    I'm planning on just growing an occasional batch that will hopefully last me ages before have to setup and grow more again

    It will be a hydro grow with autos. I plan to probably do 24/0 lights.

    Here is what I have for hardware:

    1.2(w)x1.2(l)x2(h)m tent
    parabolic reflector (1m I think from memory)
    Lumii 600w dimmable ballast
    Sunmaster 600w Dual Spectrum
    6" Rhino Pro Carbon Filter 150x300
    6" RVK fan 150E2
    Ducting and jubilee clips
    CF Ecostick Truncheon
    PH Meter
    A few various cheapo analogue and digital temperate or humidity sensors that could be used
    Airpots (Currently a couple of 3l and 9l - but think 20l may be the way to go)
    Plug & Grow Heavy Duty timer (prob won't need this if doing 24/0)
    Sonoff TH16 (probably will look at using one or 2 of these to control the fans or possibly heating if gets too cold)
    Silver reflective tape

    Chemicals I have :
    Canna Coco Pro Plus 50l
    Plant Magic Magne+Cal (1l)
    PH Buffer 7
    PH Down
    Canna Coco A+B
    Canna PK 13/14 (1l)
    Canna Rhizotonic (1l)

    The seeds that I bought were as follows (including a couple of freebies)
    White Widow XXL AUTO x3
    Royal Critical Automatic x6
    Nirvana Blueberry Kush Auto x2

    The seeds were bought in 2016 - hope they are still viable :/

    From what I gather, this may be enough liquids that I need to buy? I've seen mention of buying Liquid Silicon too? worth getting?

    This post is way too long already so I'll write my questions on the next post to try and keep it semi tidy

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    That looks good to me
    "Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."
    (Joseph Goebbels)

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    Hello Terry, how many plant do you plan on doing in your space? I would recommend starting without the silicon and get used to the a and b first. Maybe use it on the next grow when you can read the plants a little easier.

    I'm subbing up, good luck

    Sent from Thames Iron works

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    So I've identified I still need to buy (probably)

    Liquid Silicon


    So......to my questions


    1. Do you think the 2016 bought seeds should still be viable?

    2. Is it worth getting Liquid Silicon too?

    3. Is it worth bothering LST for autos? I'm clumsy fat fingered, worried I may snap them

    4. I've read that airpots are the equivalent of larger regular pots due to the design Would 20l still be a good pot size do you think? or should I look at the next size down, 12.5l?

    5. We have a load of perlite from the other halfs regular gardening. Would it be worth mixing that into the coco pro? One result I found seemed to suggest 30% perlite 70% coco (looking at my age old notes)

    6. Is it necessary to get Canna Boost Accelerator, or Cannazym?

    7. Would clay pebbles or Vermiculite be worth getting too?

    8. As I'm planning on running the lights 24/0, do you think I may still need to provide a heater? It will be in my garage (attached to house). While I need to check, I think it may be about 14c in there without. Other than the initial heating of the room I'm thinking/hoping the lights will keep the room warm enough. If so, I may get one or more of the tubular bars connected to a sonoff or 2

    9. I live in a very hard tapwater area. I was thinking bottled water, phd to around 6 for germinating, then moving to water that had been left for 24hours+ once fully germinated and showing out of coco? Plan to start this off in kitchen roll in the boiler room, before transferring to the main pot once a 1inch taproot is showing

    10. Am I right in thinking that I should give it zero nutrients for the first 7 days? (just PH the water to the correct level)

    11. Need to decide whether to buy a humidifier or not, anyone know of any cheap ones, that can either be set to an exact humidity %, or alternatively that would auto start when switched by the likes of a Sonoff (whereas most I know would need to be pressed to start)

    12. Air intake.....I'm confused with this one.....so I'll have the carbon filter somehow set up above the lights. The RVK fan I think will have to go outside of the tent somewhere as I dont think I could fit it otherwise. I read somewhere about connecting some old tights to the hole at the bottom of the tent to stop crap from coming through. But is it necessary to actually use a fan to push air into the tent? The house is connected to the garage, so hopefully I can offset some of my home heating by having some of the filtered air come back into the house

    13. Lights...how high should I keep the bottom of the vertical light from the young plants? (if it helps, the parabolic holds the single bulb vertically)

    14. Where I'm really struggling is, working out how much of each chemical I have, to feed to the plants when the time comes. I've read that you must mix them in "the correct order" to prevent them from ermmm binding or something like that. The canna guide I've found seems to imply that you'd need basically every bit of canna goods, and then some posts seem to suggest using half of what Canna say. So I'm really confused at how much to give

    Sorry for writing the complete works of shakespeare. There will be more questions too I'm sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
    Hello Terry, how many plant do you plan on doing in your space? I would recommend starting without the silicon and get used to the a and b first. Maybe use it on the next grow when you can read the plants a little easier.

    I'm subbing up, good luck

    Sent from Thames Iron works
    Thanks

    I was writing the next chapter in between those messages

    I was thinking of maybe 4 plants? But as some may not germinate, possibly 6 may be better to try and start with the expectation that 1 or 2 may not germinate? I've no idea which to start with although it would be more ideal if they all flowered around the same time, so torn between either doing all of 1 type, or trying to mix them up so I can also experience the difference between the 2, eg 2 x white widow xxl and 2-4 Royal Crits? or maybe 2 WWXL, 2 Royal Crits and 1xblueberry

    Thanks for the suggestion on skipping the silicon.

    Of course as its going to cost me a small fortune on the electric meter too want to have a good a yield as I can, without risking killing it with my own stupidity too of course.

    I read that sometimes too many plants can give a worse yield than less (but I dont have a scooby doo really )

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryTit View Post
    So I've identified I still need to buy (probably)

    Liquid Silicon


    So......to my questions


    1. Do you think the 2016 bought seeds should still be viable? I have older seeds that are still viable

    2. Is it worth getting Liquid Silicon too? Never used it....

    3. Is it worth bothering LST for autos? I'm clumsy fat fingered, worried I may snap them LST is good for autos

    4. I've read that airpots are the equivalent of larger regular pots due to the design Would 20l still be a good pot size do you think? or should I look at the next size down, 12.5l? 12.5L will be fine for autos

    5. We have a load of perlite from the other halfs regular gardening. Would it be worth mixing that into the coco pro? One result I found seemed to suggest 30% perlite 70% coco (looking at my age old notes) Coco provides pretty much the perfect medium, perlite is not required

    6. Is it necessary to get Canna Boost Accelerator, or Cannazym? Never used them & would have to look up what they are supposed to do lol

    7. Would clay pebbles or Vermiculite be worth getting too? No!

    8. As I'm planning on running the lights 24/0, do you think I may still need to provide a heater? It will be in my garage (attached to house). While I need to check, I think it may be about 14c in there without. Other than the initial heating of the room I'm thinking/hoping the lights will keep the room warm enough. If so, I may get one or more of the tubular bars connected to a sonoff or 2 Your lights, with a fan controller will probably be enough

    9. I live in a very hard tapwater area. I was thinking bottled water, phd to around 6 for germinating, then moving to water that had been left for 24hours+ once fully germinated and showing out of coco? Plan to start this off in kitchen roll in the boiler room, before transferring to the main pot once a 1inch taproot is showing I have hard water, 0.5EC and have no issues but Ironman has 0.8EC & has a few issues with early seedlings

    10. Am I right in thinking that I should give it zero nutrients for the first 7 days? (just PH the water to the correct level) You can start slowly with nutes as soon as they pop up above the ground

    11. Need to decide whether to buy a humidifier or not, anyone know of any cheap ones, that can either be set to an exact humidity %, or alternatively that would auto start when switched by the likes of a Sonoff (whereas most I know would need to be pressed to start) Check your humidity with everything set up & the light on. You'll know better what you need then

    12. Air intake.....I'm confused with this one.....so I'll have the carbon filter somehow set up above the lights. The RVK fan I think will have to go outside of the tent somewhere as I dont think I could fit it otherwise. I read somewhere about connecting some old tights to the hole at the bottom of the tent to stop crap from coming through. But is it necessary to actually use a fan to push air into the tent? The house is connected to the garage, so hopefully I can offset some of my home heating by having some of the filtered air come back into the house There's an interesting thread about a week ago about keeping the intake air clean. I us an old carbon filter on my intake to clean the air

    13. Lights...how high should I keep the bottom of the vertical light from the young plants? (if it helps, the parabolic holds the single bulb vertically) No idea, I don't have such a large light - or a parabolic reflector

    14. Where I'm really struggling is, working out how much of each chemical I have, to feed to the plants when the time comes. I've read that you must mix them in "the correct order" to prevent them from ermmm binding or something like that. The canna guide I've found seems to imply that you'd need basically every bit of canna goods, and then some posts seem to suggest using half of what Canna say. So I'm really confused at how much to give There's something about the three part feeds... but canna is fine. You need an EC meter to measure the strength of your nutrients

    Sorry for writing the complete works of shakespeare. There will be more questions too I'm sure
    That should help a little

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryTit View Post
    I read that sometimes too many plants can give a worse yield than less (but I dont have a scooby doo really )
    This is true but often it's the growers with smaller light sources that it affects. As a rule of thumb you want a minimum of 100w (HPS equivalent)per plant. So, using a 250w bulb, in theory, 2 plants will have individual yeilds of a higher weight than the individual weights of three... it's when I type a sentence like that I realise how hammered I am!

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    Thanks

    So I popped to the regular shops today to pick up a few bits n bobs, some clean watering cans etc.

    I need to get a big bucket for mixing the water in and a few bits but at least some stuff is off the list. Got some regular twine for LST. I hope twine is suitable enough

    So do you think not having an intake fan is ok? and relying on natural flow coming in from the lowest vent? Would smell be a problem if this was open? Or does the filter/fan that is high up force the smell upwards and through that, if that makes sense?

    I've just checked temp in the garage, about 13c, so pretty cold right now, though its attached to conservatory and then to house, so hopefully the heat will build up

    I tested our tap water with the EC stick I got. After testing straight from the tap and into measuring jug, the EC light was flashing between 0.6 and 0.8 - so presumably its 0.7? After trying a couple of hours or so later, it seems to do similar alternating between 0.6 and 0.8 but then occasionally flashes the 1.0 and 0.4 too :O (tho seems to mostly be on around 0.8). I'm guessing that EC must increase a touch as exposed to air etc?

    So it looks like my hard tap water might cause a few issues going forward.

    I've been reading through (new poster so won't let me put a link "New Growers Guide To Canna Coco And Nutrients", thread #159865 )

    It says in there
    " If your in a hard water area start your seedlings on Rhizotonic and ph,d water for the first week before using any nutrients. "
    I have Rhizo so be good to use it, but daft question....would this be for starting the seedlings off too? in the paper towels?
    Mind, I do plan to at the very least use bottled spring water for the germination, but then go to tap water once its in the coco. So I'm thinking it really just means once its in the medium

    In Canna A,B it says there are versions of Canna A/B available for both hard and software areas :/ No indication on my bottle what type this is for, tho local hydro shop so I'd assume it should be right

    In the EC stages, it says "Seedling Stage" - EC 0.4-0.6. Would I be right in thinking thats +0.4 to 0.6? As will be a bit hard getting to that when starting at 0.7/8 (so therefore around 1.2ish)

    At the shop I picked up some grow bag long trays....initially thinking that they would be convenient with the length fitting 2 or more pots in them. However I read also that you should always empty out the run off to stop the plants soaking it up and affecting the PH negatively. Balls!! But the airports, they're raised dome like at the bottom, so will this still be a problem? No issues with buying new trays to sit them in though, will be difficult draining off from the grow bag trays so probably not my finest idea

    So torn still on whether to go a few of the same, or try and mix it up. If I mix it up main concern will be the drying/curing if chopping at different times, as I was originally thinking of drying in the tent once the grow is done, that way being able to use the carbon filter for the smell etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryTit View Post
    Thanks

    So I popped to the regular shops today to pick up a few bits n bobs, some clean watering cans etc.

    I need to get a big bucket for mixing the water in and a few bits but at least some stuff is off the list. Got some regular twine for LST. I hope twine is suitable enough THAT SHOULD BE FINE.

    So do you think not having an intake fan is ok? and relying on natural flow coming in from the lowest vent? Would smell be a problem if this was open? Or does the filter/fan that is high up force the smell upwards and through that, if that makes sense?
    I HAVE A 1.2 X 1.2 AND I HAVE A PASSIVE INTAKE. AS LONG AS YOU JAVE NEGATIVE PRESSURE YOURE GOLDEN.

    I've just checked temp in the garage, about 13c, so pretty cold right now, though its attached to conservatory and then to house, so hopefully the heat will build up

    I tested our tap water with the EC stick I got. After testing straight from the tap and into measuring jug, the EC light was flashing between 0.6 and 0.8 - so presumably its 0.7? After trying a couple of hours or so later, it seems to do similar alternating between 0.6 and 0.8 but then occasionally flashes the 1.0 and 0.4 too :O (tho seems to mostly be on around 0.8). I'm guessing that EC must increase a touch as exposed to air etc?
    IM NOT FAMILIAR WITH YOUR EC STICK BUT 0.7 SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT.

    So it looks like my hard tap water might cause a few issues going forward.

    I've been reading through (new poster so won't let me put a link "New Growers Guide To Canna Coco And Nutrients", thread #159865 )

    It says in there

    I have Rhizo so be good to use it, but daft question....would this be for starting the seedlings off too? in the paper towels?
    USE RHIZO FROM THE START. I ADD A FEW DROPS TO THE WATER THE SEEDS SOAK IN DURING GERMINATION AND ADD IT TO THE SPRAY BOTTLE TOO.

    Mind, I do plan to at the very least use bottled spring water for the germination, but then go to tap water once its in the coco. So I'm thinking it really just means once its in the medium.
    I USE BOTTLE WATER FOR THE SEEDLING STAGE FOR THE SAME REASON SWITCH TO TAP WATER WHEN THE PLANT IS ESTABLISHED BEYOND SEEDLING STAGE.

    In Canna A,B it says there are versions of Canna A/B available for both hard and software areas :/ No indication on my bottle what type this is for, tho local hydro shop so I'd assume it should be right.
    MINES THE SAME DONT WORRY I JAVE HARD WATER TOO.

    In the EC stages, it says "Seedling Stage" - EC 0.4-0.6. Would I be right in thinking thats +0.4 to 0.6? As will be a bit hard getting to that when starting at 0.7/8 (so therefore around 1.2ish)
    NEVER GO BY FEED CHARTS, START OFF 0.2 ABOVE BACKGROUND EC AND THEN RAISE IT IF THE PLANT LOOKS PALE OR REDUCE IT IF THE PLANT LOOKS TOO DARK GREEN.

    At the shop I picked up some grow bag long trays....initially thinking that they would be convenient with the length fitting 2 or more pots in them. However I read also that you should always empty out the run off to stop the plants soaking it up and affecting the PH negatively. Balls!! But the airports, they're raised dome like at the bottom, so will this still be a problem? No issues with buying new trays to sit them in though, will be difficult draining off from the grow bag trays so probably not my finest idea.
    USE SOME BATONS ACROSS THE RIM OF THE GROW BAG TRAY TO SUSSPEND IT ABOVE THE TRAY. YOY WILL NEED TO REMOVE THE RUN OFF AFTER FEEDING.

    So torn still on whether to go a few of the same, or try and mix it up. If I mix it up main concern will be the drying/curing if chopping at different times, as I was originally thinking of drying in the tent once the grow is done, that way being able to use the carbon filter for the smell etc
    START WITH THE SAME STRAIN, EVEN THEY WILL THROW DIFFERENT THINGS AT YOU. ALL STRAINS HAVE DIFFERENT PHENOTYPES WHICH WILL GROW DIFFERENTLY.



    Sent from Thames Iron works

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
    Sent from Thames Iron works
    Cheers bud, thanks

    So my PH of water straight out of the tap seems to be around 7.3, After a few hours it seems to be around 7.7

    I thought I'd crack open a bottle of the spring water and check the PH of that. This was at 7.7 too.
    On trying the EC Truncheon (it's one of those approx 26quid ones on fleabay), I couldn't get any reading at all to come from it. I'm presuming thats because its so clean etc?

    The sticks lowest light is at 0.4, so it must be less than that.

    If adding by 0.2 above background, it may be a bit of guess work for the very start of the grow, as wont know what starting it. Wonder if it may be worth buying a pen thats a bit like the PH meter types with a digital readout- I'm not sure I'm too keen on this flashing light reading mallarky as it seems to bounce around a bit erratic :/

    I've drawn up a small shopping list for after work tomorrow, mostly just some more pot trays and spray bottles etc

    Another question though. Seedlings. Once I've got my taproot (in the dark?) As soon as it goes into the coco, should I then fire up my 600w 24/7 onto them? I've searched and seen some recommending CFLs for early stage. I don't have any CFLs though, and will need the cfl holder, so wondering if the additional cost is worth it vs the extra expense on running the 7. If I ran in CFL too, I'd have to start it off in the house I think too to ensure the temps are ok, before moving the pots seeing as I'm relying on the 600w for some of the heating in the room too

    Thanks

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    Oh, also, when is the plant magic cal-mag best to be introduced into the mix?

    Tomorrow or shortly after I'll look at trying to draw up a rough watering guide of how much I need to mix each week based on what I have, but as mentioned earlier, it probably makes sense to not get the Silicone which I don't own yet (unless it will significantly boost my grow)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryTit View Post
    Another question though. Seedlings. Once I've got my taproot (in the dark?) As soon as it goes into the coco, should I then fire up my 600w 24/7 onto them? I've searched and seen some recommending CFLs for early stage. I don't have any CFLs though, and will need the cfl holder, so wondering if the additional cost is worth it vs the extra expense on running the 7. If I ran in CFL too, I'd have to start it off in the house I think too to ensure the temps are ok, before moving the pots seeing as I'm relying on the 600w for some of the heating in the room too

    Thanks
    This is one of the points that photos & autos are totally different.

    Obviously, when the seed is still below ground then there is little to be gained by having lights on but once the seedling is above ground, then with an auto, hit it with full on lighting. If a photoperiod then the lighting on the veg period is less important as the veg time is decided by light schedules

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    Good luck with grow m8

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    Thanks all,

    So yesterday started assembling bits and bobs, tent up etc.

    I struggled working out the best way to hang the carbon filter, I tried wrapping around the end bar plus a single movable bar, but it just caused the bar to pull itself right to the edge of the tent. In the end I settled with the belt thing twisted a little to hold it

    The stupid mistake I made, and deciding what to do about ....

    The ducting I'd bought years ago was "Rhino Approved" (allegedly) 6" Sono ducting
    I'd also bought 6" clamps, to go around the 6" filter.

    What I didn't even consider, was the fact that the acoustic ducting is much thicker than regular 6" ducting

    What I also didn't consider or think about when started it, was that the crap inside it is fibreglass. And there was me doing it in a dressing gown and little else, I didn't even think to put gloves or glasses on - big mistake, itchy as anything all over and spelk like things everywhere

    I'm not sure on the quality of the ducting. The outside bit seems a little bit thicker, but the inside was super thin and tore very easily. It also has lots of little holes on the inner one that effectively leaks into the fibre glass section. I've done a bit of searching and it seems some versions of acoustic ducting have a plastic membrane inside. This appears not to.

    I peeled back the layer of ducting a bit, and managed to bodge the inner portion, with the 6" clamp and tightened it (now wondering if tightened too tight). I then pushed forward the fibreglass and outer layer as close as I could to the filter, then wrapped it it in a bit of silver tape. That tape is super sticky, and quite hard to work with in the small corner, especially when uncomfortable and gagging a bit from the fibreglass stuff, so it is pretty roughly wrapped, and I hope I've covered the whole thing with no leaks to the outside

    From what I think, in theory if the fibreglass is exposed to the smell, the smell will just absorb through the fibreglass and then into the inner ducting through the small holes, so I'm a bit worried about this. Maybe the amount would be negligable?

    As a result, I'm wondering if I should just rip it out, and buy some regular ducting. I see Rhino do some black Combi Ductingm that is described as being pretty durable.

    The other thing too, is if when it starts to flower and if I then notice i've fucked up and its stinking, trying to rip it out mid grow, it'll splatter the plants in fibreglass which would be really bad

    It was also one hell of a squeeze to try and force the 6" sono ducting through the smaller 6" gap in the tent. now para in case I have tore some other outer bits that I haven't spotted yet

    I plan to hang the RVK fan outside the tent to pull through. We have some hooks on the ceiling so may suspend the RVK from that

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  29. Default

    Sorry mate but the thought of all that itching in a dressing gown and nothing else at all made me chuckle

    I've used this type of acoustic ducting in the past with no issues at all, however, if you're really this concerned about it then perhaps you should replace it now (if you can) so at the minimum, it will remove one issue you will most likely be stressing over throughout the grow. I've seen some good 'acoustic' ducting these days which comes without all that glass-fibre. This new one is called 'Phonic Trap Ducting' only down side is that it's much more expensive.

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    Haha yup it wasn't my finest hour that's for sure

    Thankfully my tackle was covered so at least some bits survived, no matter how small And no doubt my dressing gown will need 50 washes to get it all out

    In hindsight I should of bought the larger clips...When you used it did you just use regular clips installed around the inner covering? Or were you sensible enough to (whilst clothed), get a larger one and secure it around the outside too.

    It's definitely very finicky work though and I'm clumsy and fat fingered!!

    Any way of testing for smell leaks without having an actual grow in? Half tempted to stick a dog turd in there and see what happens

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  33. Default

    Well at least the tackle was covered, can't imagine getting fibreglass down there..would have been torture for sure

    When I used mine I had the larger clips and secured it on the outside too mate (fully clothed lol), as far as testing I wouldn't go with the dog turd lmao..maybe try cup of coffee or something with a nice strong scent.

    We all live and learn mate, that's the beauty of it in the end hey

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