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Thread: Here we go again lol.... leaves crumbling after 12/12

  1. #1

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    Default Here we go again lol.... leaves crumbling after 12/12

    Hey all!

    2 weeks ago i put the girls to flower 12/12 and changed the mix to a what i thought was a transition mix. I went from 4-3-1 to 1-3-3. I have just been feeding them but have not payed much attention except for the occasional
    snip here and there at first. Today i gave them a good inspection after last weeks snips and the floor has dried leaf bits here and there and the leafs lower to halfway up the plants are shriveling, dry and crumbling.
    The leafs also display brown patches that is the first to start crumbling. They really arent clawing or drooping or anything and the top of the plant looks mostly ok...except for a few yellow tips on leafs at the top most part of the
    plants. The roots look very healthy.

    Im pretty sure that the BLOOM is the culprit. I had issues when the plants were younger with BLOOM. I was running a 2-2-2 and the plants were drooping, clawing, tacoing with occasional brown spots here and there. I changed
    to 4-3-1 and the plants took off like a bat outta hell and became very healthy looking. There was also a slight PH issue but its fixed.

    I changed the mix to include more bloom for flowering but my plants seem to hate it.

    Any thoughts?
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    Alright pal, copy and paste this below and fill it out, be easier to see what's goin on


    Soil or hydro or coco:

    Strain:

    Photo or Auto:

    plant age:

    pot size:

    has it been repotted? and when?:

    soil type:

    nutes or additives used and how often for soil:

    Air temps (max min):

    Res temps (max min):

    humidity:

    lighting type and wattage (hps, led, cfl):

    Light schedule:

    ph level:

    EC (hydro and coco only)

    Background EC.

    feed schedule and nutes (for hydro and coco)

    anything else you think may be relevant!

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    I remember you're doing recirculating hydro? Anyway when I see leaves that look kind of crinkly like that I always think the pH is swinging a little bit too far. Were you using general hydroponics? That's what my memory tells me. That's not too bad of a feed ratio you have there, could be you could actually go a little higher on the bloom. But you'll really need to measure that pH for a while to get an idea.



    J


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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCannab1sir View Post
    Alright pal, copy and paste this below and fill it out, be easier to see what's goin on


    Soil or hydro or coco:

    Strain:

    Photo or Auto:

    plant age:

    pot size:

    has it been repotted? and when?:

    soil type:

    nutes or additives used and how often for soil:

    Air temps (max min):

    Res temps (max min):

    humidity:

    lighting type and wattage (hps, led, cfl):

    Light schedule:

    ph level:

    EC (hydro and coco only)

    Background EC.

    feed schedule and nutes (for hydro and coco)

    anything else you think may be relevant!
    oops...yea i guess it would be helpful to give more info lol.

    -Durban Poison sativa, photo
    -2 weeks into flowering 12/12 AGE = 2 months
    -DWC, 5 gal buckets, clay pebbles, rockwool
    -noots are GMB, calimagic, hydroguard
    -temps 24c air, 75F water (hydroguard), RH 50%
    -PH is 5.5 to 6.0ish testing using PH test kit
    -tent grow, 4x4, air filtered, climate controlled, mars hydro 1000x eqiv led i think
    -each plant drinking 1/2 gallon per day, feeding every 2 days

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    PH isnt the issue. After the plants got sick a while back and PH/bloom was the cause....ive been on top of PH testing and adjusted the bloom from 3 down to 1. Plants
    recovered quickly.... Each gallon of water/feed i mix up is always ph adjusted to a piss yellow color. I test the tanks every other feeding which is about every 4 days.

    Everything was going great until i switched to 12/12 and changed the noot mix. 1 week after this event is when i started to notice the issue. It keeps coming back to
    bloom it seems like. I was running 3 and the plants got sick over it so i adjusted down to 1 and they recovered and exploded in growth. I flowered and adjusted back to
    3 and here i am again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
    PH isnt the issue. After the plants got sick a while back and PH/bloom was the cause....ive been on top of PH testing and adjusted the bloom from 3 down to 1. Plants
    recovered quickly.... Each gallon of water/feed i mix up is always ph adjusted to a piss yellow color. I test the tanks every other feeding which is about every 4 days.

    Everything was going great until i switched to 12/12 and changed the noot mix. 1 week after this event is when i started to notice the issue. It keeps coming back to
    bloom it seems like. I was running 3 and the plants got sick over it so i adjusted down to 1 and they recovered and exploded in growth. I flowered and adjusted back to
    3 and here i am again!
    I had some real significant problems using my general hydroponics bloom this summer, I wasn't able to feed my normal levels of bloom I had to settle it all the way back to 1 mil. In my case, it was simply the fact that my bloom nutrients were too old, once I got a new bottle everything was fine and I was able to feed full strength again. Not saying that's your problem, but if you are feeding general hydroponics you really should be able to feed up to 5 mil per gallon in flower.



    J


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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
    PH isnt the issue. After the plants got sick a while back and PH/bloom was the cause....ive been on top of PH testing and adjusted the bloom from 3 down to 1. Plants
    recovered quickly.... Each gallon of water/feed i mix up is always ph adjusted to a piss yellow color.
    Are you using a PH meter?
    It's Not What You Know, It's What You Can Prove...”

    (Alonzo Harris)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
    -PH is 5.5 to 6.0ish testing using PH test kit
    No, you're not... the kits are hard work mate, buy a meter!

    When I grew in soil I used the test strips. I thought my PH was 6.0 - when I went to coco, PH was important so I bought a meter. My tap water PH is actually 7.8

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    Are you using a PH meter?
    No. Im using a ph test kit with the color coded chart. I had a ph meter for 5 minutes but it would not calibrate at all. Junked it. Cheap chinese amazon junk. Could not find a legit meter
    in my price range so im winging it with the test kit. I keep the PH (according to the chart) @5.5-6. Piss yellow toward orange in color.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jingo View Post
    I had some real significant problems using my general hydroponics bloom this summer, I wasn't able to feed my normal levels of bloom I had to settle it all the way back to 1 mil. In my case, it was simply the fact that my bloom nutrients were too old, once I got a new bottle everything was fine and I was able to feed full strength again. Not saying that's your problem, but if you are feeding general hydroponics you really should be able to feed up to 5 mil per gallon in flower.



    J

    ever since i started the grow and the plants were young.... they were always droopy and clawing. i was using 2-2-2 to start as advised. i came here and spoke with yall and tried a new mix that was suggested in my thread.
    the mix was 4-3-1. after this the plants perked up and took off growing like weeds. removing 2ml of bloom and bumping G up 2 mills worked. they stopped displaying kinda sickly and really started looking great. that told me that something was up with bloom. maybe just maybe i got a bad bottle as you suggest?

    it was suggested here that i should be able to use 5ml of bloom and if thats the case.... then i got a problem with my bottle of bloom. its pretty clear that my plants do not tolerate the bloom im using. anything over 1ml of bloom and the plants
    get sick.

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    so all i have done so far is change the water completely with a 3-3-1 mix and remove ALL the dead leaves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    No, you're not... the kits are hard work mate, buy a meter!

    When I grew in soil I used the test strips. I thought my PH was 6.0 - when I went to coco, PH was important so I bought a meter. My tap water PH is actually 7.8
    i havent really had an issue using the test kit as it is pretty straight forward. sure i dont get it exact down to the decimal point, but pretty darn close is ok. however...

    I DO want a meter badly. its time consuming using a test kit. maybe you can recommend a meter that isnt 3/5 star amazon junk and costing hundreds of bones? if you can, id be
    grateful!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
    i havent really had an issue using the test kit as it is pretty straight forward. sure i dont get it exact down to the decimal point, but pretty darn close is ok. however...

    I DO want a meter badly. its time consuming using a test kit. maybe you can recommend a meter that isnt 3/5 star amazon junk and costing hundreds of bones? if you can, id be
    grateful!
    In the US I buy oakton brand, they have some inexpensive fully automatic pH testers. By inexpensive I mean around 65 to 75 bucks.



    J


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    I just bought an Apera PH20 from Amazon for $50.00.



    One of them is the PH20 the other is the EC20. The EC20 was about $60.00 bucks. Nice little kits.

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    just got back from the hydro shop. picked up a HM ph-80 and a new bottle of bloom.

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    new meter calibrated and working great.

    plant 1 - ph 5.6, ppm 575

    plant 2 - ph 5.3 ppm 560


    changed water 2 days ago mix 3-3-1.5

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    Weird you only changed res 2 days ago always works for me (mostly) in recirculating systems even if your ec is correct heavier elements tend to build up quite fast you could have a slight toxicity on your hands but in 2 day it’s unlikely I will say. Maybe check humidity and check a vpd chart. If you plants are under or over transpiring that could be the culprit
    Last edited by neoow9; 17-01-21 at 05:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
    new meter calibrated and working great.

    plant 1 - ph 5.6, ppm 575

    plant 2 - ph 5.3 ppm 560


    changed water 2 days ago mix 3-3-1.5
    So a proper pH swing would stay between 5.7 and 6.2, I never go below 5.7 because calcium becomes way too hard for the plant uptake. Dropping down to 5.4 pH, is enough to cause those crinkly leaves you were having. How long your pH stays in range is completely dependent on how much feed you're using.



    J


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    Quote Originally Posted by jingo View Post
    So a proper pH swing would stay between 5.7 and 6.2, I never go below 5.7 because calcium becomes way too hard for the plant uptake. Dropping down to 5.4 pH, is enough to cause those crinkly leaves you were having. How long your pH stays in range is completely dependent on how much feed you're using.



    J

    I need to feed them today. They are no longer showing signs of distress as of yesterday, but they are still sleeping right now. If all looks good im thinking about bumping bloom up again.
    I obtained a new bottle of bloom. Ill shoot for a ph of 5.9 or so. Im not sure how much to bump up the bloom though. I might try 2.5ml/gal

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    Quote Originally Posted by neoow9 View Post
    Weird you only changed res 2 days ago always works for me (mostly) in recirculating systems even if your ec is correct heavier elements tend to build up quite fast you could have a slight toxicity on your hands but in 2 day it’s unlikely I will say. Maybe check humidity and check a vpd chart. If you plants are under or over transpiring that could be the culprit
    Ive been keeping the RH @65% for veg and dropped it down to 50% for flower. Some guides even say to take it down to 30% during flower. Alot of conflicting info but i have been averaging it based on what i have been reading. I have a humidifier but dont have a dehumidifier yet. Ive been opening the tent door during the day to keep them in the 50's% rh. The tent rises to 70%rh with lights on and tent shut at day. During night the tent gets to about 60ish%rh all zipped up.

    This is the first i have heard of a vpd chart, and according to the chart im too low. It gets very confusing really. The grow guides im following say that the rh needs to be much lower during flowering or else bud rot. So i guess i need to keep the rh around 60%? Thats the lowest on the chart in the green for 24c which is my average temps.

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