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Thread: Dialing in the tent

  1. #1

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    Default Dialing in the tent

    I've been tinkering. Just wondering if these conditions seem good to go.

    1.2 x 1.2 x 2.1m tent
    600W MH vert parabolic
    402 cfm 6" exhaust fan venting out window

    Passive intake:
    Two 6x12" mesh vents w/ 100 micron filter
    6" duct w/ 100 micron filter.

    AC 1100W
    3G humidifier

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    Trying to tax the AC as little as possible $$$, and to reduce the exhaust fan frequency of ramping up and down (was an issue).

    Currently I have things as follows:
    AC, in room with tent, set to 68F/20C
    Humidifier, in tent, running at 75%(full is too loud), only gain about 8% humidity (coupled with the exhaust speed), but does lower temps 2 degrees. At 50W max I think it's worth it for the cooling effect?

    Also have a 7" fan on the floor, aimed straight up at the bulb.

    The exhaust fan is running steady at 68% power
    Set to ramp up if temps hit 81F/27C
    Holding strong at 79-80F.

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    The 100 micron filters on the mesh ports only raises temps 1 degree. I think that's a fair trade for critter insurance.

    I wasnt expecting to need so much passive intake, though. Makes me think something is off. I dunno. Maybe 600W MH is just hot as hell.

    I guess if I want to shave a few degrees off I'm gonna have to lean on the AC more.
    ~It's a violent universe~

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    MH can be hot as hell. For the same power draw, less light = more heat. Have you tried using a 600w hps to see how the numbers compare? Modern day hps lamps are way better than the hps of yesteryear. Much more light with a corresponding drop in heat. It used to be that 50w hps psf was the minimum. Now the minimum is 37.5w hps psf. MH doesn't seem to have advanced as much. (An exception being 315w cmh.) The plants prefer blue light to red but they'd much rather have lots of red than not much blue.

    An easy way to check the passive intake is to listen carefully when opening the tent. If you hear the pitch of the fan drop, that means the extra air available is giving the fan more work to do and the passive inlet needs to be larger. If the fan doesn't drop in pitch, then the passive inlet is large enough.

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    Thanks, man. I'll give a listen to the fan.
    I was still getting negative pressure FWIW. Not as pronounced as when I tested with a single 6" passive in. Thought the stitching was gonna pop. Lol
    I'll try opening another 6" port,

    Only reason I'm trying MH is to hopefully reduce stretch. I do have a 600 HPS at the ready, so yeah, that needs a test run for comparison. I'm on it.

    This may have just helped me realize a blunder.
    The placement of the fan controller sensor should be at the intended canopy level, right? I've had the sensor 10" from the bulb, with the parabolic as high up as it goes. Was originally testing to see conditions if the plants grew that tall. But, duh....it wouldn't be a MH bulb running by that point anyway...

    The world's so lucky I'm not in charge of anything.

    Will be testing later. Thanks, again.

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    I've not used temp control with a fan, I prefer the noise level to be constant. I use an IR thermometer to measure the top of the canopy.

    The parabolics I used are a different brand to yours. I found the sweet spot to be having the bright band of light on the walls about 8" above the canopy. So good guess on 10" from the bulb.

    The paras do cost height so you'll need to do something about that. I did scrogs to control the height and in a 4x4 tent, getting to the rear plants was a pain.

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    HP's and mh are hot as fuck
    I use mh for most of veg and hps for flower.

    The temps will be at canopy level that's right.
    I'm surprised your getting such high temps and not enough passive with that many flaps open.

    One port is usually enough for me in same size or slightly smaller tent. :/ But I could just be lucky in location...

    If heats an issue look into led down the line

    I'd say stop testing at this point and just go for it.

    Fwiw I the humidity also goes up with pots in the tent. As they're moist too

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    Parabolics are good for reducing the heat from hid. Infra Red doesn't bounce so the reflector gets the IR heat instead of the plants.

    With a bedroom grow during a good summer and using an open cab, the ambient temps were 24'C and the canopy was 27'C. The reflector petals were in the 30s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Geddon View Post
    I've not used temp control with a fan, I prefer the noise level to be constant. I use an IR thermometer to measure the top of the canopy.

    The parabolics I used are a different brand to yours. I found the sweet spot to be having the bright band of light on the walls about 8" above the canopy. So good guess on 10" from the bulb.

    The paras do cost height so you'll need to do something about that. I did scrogs to control the height and in a 4x4 tent, getting to the rear plants was a pain.
    Gotta say, the cloudline s6 is really quiet. I cant notice any sound difference when opening the tent. I do have one of those IR's in my amazon cart.

    Dont think I can do a scrog, gonna be trying autos first. Planned to top once. I'll have about 3' to play with from top of the pots to ~10" from bulb. In terms of heat alone I feel like the plants could probably get even closer, but maybe I can lean/bend colas out of harm's way if needed. Sounds like a good problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Karsa View Post
    HP's and mh are hot as fuck
    I use mh for most of veg and hps for flower.

    The temps will be at canopy level that's right.
    I'm surprised your getting such high temps and not enough passive with that many flaps open.

    One port is usually enough for me in same size or slightly smaller tent. :/ But I could just be lucky in location...

    If heats an issue look into led down the line

    I'd say stop testing at this point and just go for it.

    Fwiw I the humidity also goes up with pots in the tent. As they're moist too

    Sent from my J8210 using Tapatalk
    Having these temps with all those flaps open surprised me too. I was expecting a single passive 6" to do the job, based off journals I've read. I'm in a south east facing bedroom, which I think is a good thing. I shouldn't get pounded with midday sun during peak summer (around harvest time).

    Believe me, LED is on my radar.
    Good point on the humidity.

    I'm just taking a bit more time to get a feel for things. Planning to go same day as the Pepsi challenge.


    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Geddon View Post
    Parabolics are good for reducing the heat from hid. Infra Red doesn't bounce so the reflector gets the IR heat instead of the plants.

    With a bedroom grow during a good summer and using an open cab, the ambient temps were 24'C and the canopy was 27'C. The reflector petals were in the 30s.
    Appreciate the reference.
    I spent a good part of today testing with the hps. Straightened the ducting a bit and fixed some previously unseen ducting pin holes.
    Also thought I should better replicate grow conditions by moving the 7" fan to just above the sensor/canopy. It was previously on the floor pointed up at the bulb. Still need a few little fans.

    Spare ya every detail. I think the best results came from the following:

    AC cooling the room to 70-71F/21-22C
    600w hps
    402cfm fan running at 68%
    Humidifier (in tent) constant at 75% power.
    7" fan just above canopy (will add more circ).

    That got things to a stable 77-78F/25-26C ~10" from the bulb.

    Decent I think?

    Gonna retest with MH later tonight.
    Appreciate the input, guys.

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    I wonder, could you swap out that ducting for hard duct instead? It would improve the efficiency a little (Not a huge amount though!)
    Life is what happens to us while we are making other plans.”

    (Allen Saunders)


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    Sounds like ya are getting things dialed in. Real smart of you to get the enviroment dialed in first.
    Can't wait to see ya growing some ladies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    I wonder, could you swap out that ducting for hard duct instead? It would improve the efficiency a little (Not a huge amount though!)
    Hmmm...didn't think of that. I'll have a look.

    I did straighten it out some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue61 View Post
    Sounds like ya are getting things dialed in. Real smart of you to get the enviroment dialed in first.
    Can't wait to see ya growing some ladies.
    Thanks, Blue. I'll be crying in the Infirmary forum in no time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Digby Chicken Caesar View Post
    Hmmm...didn't think of that. I'll have a look.

    I did straighten it out some.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Better

    The less bend & turn, the better the airflow

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    I just nabbed a solid female to female connector for fan and filter but want a second and third (female and male) one for the bend out of the tent.

    Mind my temps have always ran high -_- I counter measure with vpd but it will only get you so far inside a tent.

    Fair point on getting a feel for things, TBF mukka you're doing it right. I'm just impatient xD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Digby Chicken Caesar View Post
    Thanks, Blue. I'll be crying in the Infirmary forum in no time.
    Use basic nutes only and leave the yield chasing until your stash can cover a poor harvest.

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    the old "stick with strings" to hold the exhaust hose - exactly how I have mine mate. Great minds and all that.

    Iv got similar setup, with 600w hps, 6in extraction, passive intake. I run intake to the window too. Iv got extraction out the top window and have the intake sitting on window sill with the lower window cracked a bit. I find it gets the coolest, freshest air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Digby Chicken Caesar View Post
    Hmmm...didn't think of that. I'll have a look.

    I did straighten it out some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karsa View Post
    I just nabbed a solid female to female connector for fan and filter but want a second and third (female and male) one for the bend out of the tent.

    Mind my temps have always ran high -_- I counter measure with vpd but it will only get you so far inside a tent.

    Fair point on getting a feel for things, TBF mukka you're doing it right. I'm just impatient xD

    Sent from my J8210 using Tapatalk
    Right on. I familiarized myself with VPD some, but after seeing so many low humidity grows here, it kinda fell off my radar. I figure now with my exhaust at 86% power there ain't much hope keeping humidity up. Could easily be wrong.

    Im seriously considering trying some different ducting, but probably not this grow.

    Im getting impatient too. ;P

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Geddon View Post
    Use basic nutes only and leave the yield chasing until your stash can cover a poor harvest.
    I'm keeping things pretty simple. Megacrop, CaliMagic, and Great White Shark. I'll be amazed if I can even keep them alive.

    I've been doing more test runs with the hps; made a couple tweaks. I reduced a ducting bend by realigning the exhaust fan and tightening up the duct run to the window. Also set the fan to 86% power.

    Same 3 passive ports, AC at 70F. The 7" fan is on the floor pointed up at the bulb. The sensor is in the direct path of the breeze (kinda mimicking clip fans across the canopy, just vertically if that makes sense).

    @ 24" 75F
    @18" 75F
    @12" 76F
    @ 6" 77F. Same height, sensor at far corner of tent. 78F
    @ 2" above the bulb/reflector plane, about 6" horizontally from the bulb, exhaust triggered to max, temps rose to 85 before I stopped.

    Those numbers seem great to me. I'm just not sure if this method is accurate; the way I'm using the fan/sensor. Either way I think I need to get on top of circulation now; seems the ticket atm?

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    Man you are way ahead of most of us on our first grows. (guess i shouldn't speak for others)
    Make sure to have a filter over any hoses hooked to the outside. Got a date set to pull the trigger?

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    Combi is fine, phonic is best for sound, for extraction solid, but it's loud.

    Looks like you're getting things nice and on track. But,I have to ask... have you lowered the speed since you changed stuff up? Dropped the intakes down too?

    You want a relatively mid range humidity to start with in veg

    RH Roughly
    70-75% seedling
    58-65% veg
    40-45% flower

    Personally, I rarely hit this still finding the sweet spot in the house etc. Most of the time my temps are in the 30's too so, but I can get a reasonable RH still just not quite peak.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue61 View Post
    Man you are way ahead of most of us on our first grows. (guess i shouldn't speak for others)
    Make sure to have a filter over any hoses hooked to the outside. Got a date set to pull the trigger?
    Thanks, man. A byproduct of procrastination.
    I did overlook that filter bit...
    I have one of those flappy vent covers on the outside of the window unit. That came with a screen that I think would keep some pests out, but definitely not all... : /
    Setting things off on the 15th. Just gotta grab some fans quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by longtimefirsttime View Post
    the old "stick with strings" to hold the exhaust hose - exactly how I have mine mate. Great minds and all that.

    Iv got similar setup, with 600w hps, 6in extraction, passive intake. I run intake to the window too. Iv got extraction out the top window and have the intake sitting on window sill with the lower window cracked a bit. I find it gets the coolest, freshest air.
    Cool, man. It seemed the quickest solution.
    I have the extraction up top and the AC unit below in the same window. The other window is blocked by the tent.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    There's a poorly insulated walk-in closet that has another window. It would be nice to take advantage of cool weather and lay off the AC occassionally. Appreciate that thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karsa View Post
    Combi is fine, phonic is best for sound, for extraction solid, but it's loud.

    Looks like you're getting things nice and on track. But,I have to ask... have you lowered the speed since you changed stuff up? Dropped the intakes down too?

    You want a relatively mid range humidity to start with in veg

    RH Roughly
    70-75% seedling
    58-65% veg
    40-45% flower

    Personally, I rarely hit this still finding the sweet spot in the house etc. Most of the time my temps are in the 30's too so, but I can get a reasonable RH still just not quite peak.

    Sent from my J8210 using Tapatalk
    Ill need to research the ducting some. If I were to swap it out I guess I'd go for max extraction. Maybe solid with some sound insulation covering it, if that's a thing.

    I was pretty content with the progress, but yeah, I'll give a whirl tomorrow with the fan back to 68% and drop down to a single 6" passive in. Good call.
    I'm predicting a 4-5 degree bump, but mostly talking out me butt.
    Will be cool to know for reference.

    I think I was around 28-30% RH in the tent last test.
    Not sure how much that will raise when plants are in play.
    Will note the difference at the lower exhaust speed.
    The humidifier has 1 setting higher but it sounds like a damn garbage disposal; no chance there.

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    The straightened out ducting looks good enough.

    If ever you upgrade to solid ducting, I doubt that you'll need insulation for it. The noise comes from air blowing over the ridges in flexible ducting.

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