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Thread: Which nutes

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadJohn View Post
    Sorry but I'm not sure thats right.

    According to their Material Safety Data sheet it states the product has a PH of 9-10 which is roughly the same as all other Silicic acid products. It would imply it's going to change PH upward in exactly the same way every other silica prodct does. With any silicic acid prouct you can't have the PH over about 7 when you add your neuts of there's a danger they'll seprarate.

    Never used the product so don't have that experience but just going by the manufacturers info.



    MJ
    I’ve been using it for years
    It’s the last thing I add to my res and it doesn’t alter the ph.

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  3. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethmeg View Post
    I’ve been using it for years
    It’s the last thing I add to my res and it doesn’t alter the ph.
    Very odd. Everything i have ever read has said that silica should go first followed by calmag then the rest. I've never used this line but i always figured it was the same across the board. Your plants clearly prove this wrong.
    The no change to ph is very strange. Maybe its just the volume.

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  5. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by CityDweller View Post
    Very odd. Everything i have ever read has said that silica should go first followed by calmag then the rest. I've never used this line but i always figured it was the same across the board. Your plants clearly prove this wrong.
    The no change to ph is very strange. Maybe its just the volume.
    I’ve used other silicons in the past ,vast majority tend to be potassium based and I would usually add those first then ph down to 7 before adding nutes.

    A copy paste from Buddhas Tree Solar green power….

    In recent years, the application of Nano-technology has led to the production of colloidal liquid silicon fertiliser with high bio-availability. This new silicon fertiliser can easily penetrate the leaf and form a thick silicate layer on leaf surface. Solar Solar Green Power is an aqueous colloidal dispersion of 10% amorphous silica (SiO 2 ). More precisely it is a colloidal dispersion of silicic acid in water.

    Silicic acid is the only form of Silicon that the plant can absorb. The silica particles occur in the form of discrete spheres that are not cross-linked with each other and contain hydroxyl groups on the surface. The particle size lies within the Nano range, typically 15 nanometres.

    Stabilisation of colloidal particles takes place as the result of charges on the surface of the particles and is synthesised in an aqueous medium, which consists exclusively of inorganic substances, with no organic solvents being present. It is weakly alkaline. This is in marked contrast to other liquid products, such as potassium silicate, which is strongly alkali (pH12). Not only does this make the liquid hazardous to handle but it makes mixing with other products almost impossible.

    "Silicic acid is the only form of Silicon that the plant can absorb."

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  7. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethmeg View Post
    I’ve used other silicons in the past ,vast majority tend to be potassium based and I would usually add those first then ph down to 7 before adding nutes.

    A copy paste from Buddhas Tree Solar green power….

    In recent years, the application of Nano-technology has led to the production of colloidal liquid silicon fertiliser with high bio-availability. This new silicon fertiliser can easily penetrate the leaf and form a thick silicate layer on leaf surface. Solar Solar Green Power is an aqueous colloidal dispersion of 10% amorphous silica (SiO 2 ). More precisely it is a colloidal dispersion of silicic acid in water.

    Silicic acid is the only form of Silicon that the plant can absorb. The silica particles occur in the form of discrete spheres that are not cross-linked with each other and contain hydroxyl groups on the surface. The particle size lies within the Nano range, typically 15 nanometres.

    Stabilisation of colloidal particles takes place as the result of charges on the surface of the particles and is synthesised in an aqueous medium, which consists exclusively of inorganic substances, with no organic solvents being present. It is weakly alkaline. This is in marked contrast to other liquid products, such as potassium silicate, which is strongly alkali (pH12). Not only does this make the liquid hazardous to handle but it makes mixing with other products almost impossible.

    "Silicic acid is the only form of Silicon that the plant can absorb."
    Thanks Bethmeg! That's some great info!

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    But.... i have seen visible improvement to my plants when i started adding silica. I use Botanicare which is sodium silicate and potassium silicate. Definitely a PH up product. The Buddhas Tree makes it sound like the Botanicare should not be helping.

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  11. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethmeg View Post
    A good silicon to use is Buddhas Tree solar green power silicic acid
    It doesn’t alter the ph at all.
    I’m UK not sure if it’s available over the pond.
    I'm seeing it online for $90 us for a liter bottle. Tempted to try it and see if there is any difference but my next grow is supposed to be water only.

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  13. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethmeg View Post
    I’ve used other silicons in the past ,vast majority tend to be potassium based and I would usually add those first then ph down to 7 before adding nutes.

    A copy paste from Buddhas Tree Solar green power….

    In recent years, the application of Nano-technology has led to the production of colloidal liquid silicon fertiliser with high bio-availability. This new silicon fertiliser can easily penetrate the leaf and form a thick silicate layer on leaf surface. Solar Solar Green Power is an aqueous colloidal dispersion of 10% amorphous silica (SiO 2 ). More precisely it is a colloidal dispersion of silicic acid in water.

    Silicic acid is the only form of Silicon that the plant can absorb. The silica particles occur in the form of discrete spheres that are not cross-linked with each other and contain hydroxyl groups on the surface. The particle size lies within the Nano range, typically 15 nanometres.

    Stabilisation of colloidal particles takes place as the result of charges on the surface of the particles and is synthesised in an aqueous medium, which consists exclusively of inorganic substances, with no organic solvents being present. It is weakly alkaline. This is in marked contrast to other liquid products, such as potassium silicate, which is strongly alkali (pH12). Not only does this make the liquid hazardous to handle but it makes mixing with other products almost impossible.

    "Silicic acid is the only form of Silicon that the plant can absorb."
    Hi,

    Look I appreciate you're vastly more experienced than me and have vastly more grows than I do so it's hard for anyone to take me seriously but I never let that get in my way! As some of my posts may show, I'm not very good at just accepting "trust me bro" posts even from really experienced people because sometimes the evidence doesn't support it any more (if it ever really did). Please don't take offence if I come across as argumentative as I don't mean to, I'm just learning and questioning. I really do appreciate experienced people like yourself giving their time and knowledge to help.

    As for your response, thanks for the info but I had read that a few times. I've highlighted the relevant bit in what you posted as they clearly state it's weakly alkaline (defined scientifically as being between 8-11PH) . It's also stated that this exact product has a PH of 9-10 in the MSDS Material Safety Data Sheet - Solar Green Power.

    Now this is absolutely less than potassium silicate (just measured my bottle here and it has a PH of 11.4) and PH being a logarithmic scale means the difference between 9 and 11 is pretty large (100 times no less!) so its effect is going to be considerably less. I could probably do the calculations and work out exactly how much the PH would increase but it's not really the point.

    What this suggests is that you're practically right if not technically right

    This will definitely have an effect of raising the PH of the target liquid no getting around it as the PH of the colloidal silicon will be 9-10. However as the concentration of silicon is higher you need less of it a litre (0.5ml/l) compared to a more normal potassium based silicon (typically 1ml/l) and the PH is less to begin with (11 > 9 best case) the amount it's actually raised by will be considerably less and who knows may not even be detectable with only 0.1 PH increments.

    Now I know it's pedantic as hell to have someone like me come and pick things apart to this level but I always feel it's better that things are explained on good scientific footing. The implication that it has no effect on PH is wrong and might give someone the completely wrong impression about silicate solutions in general. They will all affect PH.

    Here's some follow on questions though.

    • From what I read, colloidal silicate will start to form large chains below a PH of 7 so does that have any implications when using it in hydro where it's going to be in an acidic solution for a longer time?
    • If you don't have Silicon as a fallback non-EC affecting PH UP what do you use instead? (admittedly I only ever need it when I put an extra drop of PH Down in but still)



    Again thank you so much for your input.

    MJ
    Last edited by MadJohn; 25-06-22 at 10:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadJohn View Post
    Hi,

    This will definitely have an effect of raising the PH of the target liquid no getting around it as the PH of the colloidal silicon will be 9-10. However as the concentration of silicon is higher you need less of it a litre (0.5ml/l) compared to a more normal potassium based silicon (typically 1ml/l) and the PH is less to begin with (11 > 9 best case) the amount it's actually raised by will be considerably less and who knows may not even be detectable with only 0.1 PH increments.

    MJ
    This is what i was referring to when i said, "perhaps it's just the volume"

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  17. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by CityDweller View Post
    But.... i have seen visible improvement to my plants when i started adding silica. I use Botanicare which is sodium silicate and potassium silicate. Definitely a PH up product. The Buddhas Tree makes it sound like the Botanicare should not be helping.
    It's sales talk and I view that with even more skepticism than I do other things

    To suggest it makes mixing almost impossible is ridiculous as there's 100's of scientific papers using both potassium and sodium silicate with clearly beneficial results. It's also used by 1000's of growers both commercially and amateurishly without any problems.

    MJ

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  19. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadJohn View Post
    It's sales talk and I view that with even more skepticism than I do other things

    To suggest it makes mixing almost impossible is ridiculous as there's 100's of scientific papers using both potassium and sodium silicate with clearly beneficial results. It's also used by 1000's of growers both commercially and amateurishly without any problems.

    MJ
    I agree. The sales talk bothers me. But i like the lower ph and ability to mix at any point and not need to mix first. I am looking to see if any other companies offer a comparable product. If i can find, it will probably be half the price of the buddah which is exceptionally expensive.

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