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Thread: PH info and problem solving.

  1. #21

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    forgot...to know if that lime needs more or is fine just run water like the flush and watch the ph rise each time. if it wont hold up there then its use is depleted and can add some at the rate given...ive yet to ever add lime to any grow ive done ever and has been fine...if i backed of the food that caused the ph drop in the first place. if not of course it will drop again

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  3. #22

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    i dont agree with this...thats not what the ph scale means to let it swing from one end to other to allow all food. it can and has caused something called ph imballance..to much up n down basicaly. look at each ph number as a part of our human diet. say nitro is 6.8 and is meat..6.5 is veggies. and so on., most us know a correct diet is all foods in the needed amounts of each. so to have low ph monday and eating all veggies and not much meat isnt a proper way to eat a BALLANCED diet. so now after days the ph rises as we all see in hydro..as food is taken it will rise..as its diluted to the amount of water taken up. ..so hi ph now is letting lots of ,meat/nitro in and also is blocking the potassium and phos now. so it compounds the issue. do not drift ph...as little as we can. it does its own natural dri8ft we have no control over. when we try to adjust that we make it worse.
    you want an even ballance of all foods at the right amount at all times. that is only done with a steady ph...how much it effects the plants life...who knows, but it deffinatly isnt feeding as it wants to with what it wants to. if you let the ph go hi and it wants phos that day then it cant and your causing harm..may be slight or may be major depending on how far off or what its needs are
    and food for soil or hydro can be used in either. only diff is a hard water food or coco. others can be made same and work well. some make claims its different for sales

    pH adjustment

    ****Do not adjust pH of water or feed solutions for soil or compost.****

    When growing in hydroponics with lots of light we must be sure that the nutrients in the solution are readily available for absorption by the roots. This means keeping the pH of the nutrient solution between a range of about 5.5 to 6.5. In re-circulating hydroponic systems, make all new solutions between this range. The pH will generally rise over the next few days but avoid adjusting the pH every day even if it goes slightly out of range. Adding too much acid (pH down) is much worse for your plant than being slightly out of the optimum pH range.

    If you are using a lot of acid to reduce your pH, but your water is not quite hard enough for hard water feeds, you may want to consider using Nitric Acid as a pH Down in vegetative growth. This affects the solution less than phosphoric acid although more is needed. Alternatively try changing feed next crop to a universal feed, which will help keep your solution pH down and buffered.

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  5. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.W. View Post
    ...Wall almost as big as mine
    Mate, awesome response, thank you very much. You've pretty much covered every single point I asked so I'm very thankful and shall use this info.

    For one thing, since day one I've left my water out for at least 24 hours in a wide open container to allow most chlorine to evaporate off or so I thought, from today, I'm just gonna start drawing it off in advance, but straight into bottles as basically like you say, its just for temps. That will help at home and gain me a cupboard in my kitchen that I currently use to store said water.

    Yeah same here, I get that some people don't care and thats as they just haven't needed to, the luck of the quality of their water. My old property used to be fine really, as soon as I moved here I got issues and for so long I've put it down to everything but the true cause, all because in my old place I was fine and so I was simply ignorant, those days are gone and hopefully so are my issues

    Thanks once again, very helpful response that answers everything I was clueless about this morning.

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  7. #24

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    i also rarely need to check it or do run off tests anymore. ive got to know my water and food and what dose takes me to roughly what ph...at times is how i decide what dose to feed so no ph needed.
    i did alot fo reading on filtering water and cardons when i was shopping for mine. i run a hydro logic small boy filter. not an R/O waste of time those are. huge water waste hard on environment and most dont need them. my water here is cleaned now by uv light. no chemicals used so its nice n clean. low ph..tap is about 7 and filtered about 6.6. ive upgraded to a diff carbon to catch chloramines if i ever had any where i may live...each city here is different. kdf85 is the only carbon that will catch chloramines. so the reg R/O dont do it even though they say it does.
    we have a huge system installed in the shop for making the foods so i had a good chance to talk to an unbiased dood on water and filtering. i think the one in the shop had 6 membranes.
    anyways this is where i got my water and carbon info from. even kdf carbon wont get all of it but will remove enough to not kill bennies in the water or medium.

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  9. #25

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    Not a lot I can add to C.W.'s posts other than welcome to the "Club pH" Up_In_Smoke. Nice to see a few people are waking up to those who don't have perfect water all the time. As you yourself have noticed it's fine if your water is somewhere near to what you want it so you don't have to adjust. Just don't shoot down those who have crap water and do need to pH. I would love to see those who don't pH use my water for a whole grow and see how they get on with it. I don't care how much they say their soil buffers their pH mine won't buffer 7.8 back down to nearer 6.5 and certainly not for the whole grow lasting 3+ months. I can get away with it in veg but come flower and the plants go downhill rather quick unless I pH on every watering.
    'there was a young man named jobby,
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  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobby2812 View Post
    Not a lot I can add to C.W.'s posts other than welcome to the "Club pH" Up_In_Smoke. Nice to see a few people are waking up to those who don't have perfect water all the time. As you yourself have noticed it's fine if your water is somewhere near to what you want it so you don't have to adjust. Just don't shoot down those who have crap water and do need to pH. I would love to see those who don't pH use my water for a whole grow and see how they get on with it. I don't care how much they say their soil buffers their pH mine won't buffer 7.8 back down to nearer 6.5 and certainly not for the whole grow lasting 3+ months. I can get away with it in veg but come flower and the plants go downhill rather quick unless I pH on every watering.
    Mate, our water sources sound very similar.
    I can get away with veg too, no troubles, I put that down to it not being too long since potted up so the soil is still fully active sort of thing, by week 3 of flower when everything is yellow, they've been in the mud for 6 weeks or so and so any pH sort of scale that brought to the table is long gone, that and the fact the plant wants different nutes at that time.

    I haven't seen any results yet as I literally found out my own pH yesterday so its gonna be a good while before I notice the real effects, but its just in time as I've JUST put some plants into flower so perfect timing for testing.

    I agree, those that have the luck of good water, fair play and if it works for you, stick with it, but if you get any issues, look to this. But always bear in mind, I used to act just like this, thinking I hadn't had any major issues, but thinking back, I've had issues with every grow I've ever done, they just haven't always been that bad, but looking at them, they can all be put down to this. So now, the proof is in the pudding so they say, I've had my last 3 or 4 diaries ruined by yellowing come flowering, I have a diary of my current plants (not currently upto date) going at the mo, hopefully that can show going forward that this pH lark has been the reason all along.

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  13. #27

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    I had a group of people telling ME.. not everyone.. but speciically ME that I should drop the water adjustment for the time being having seen what my starting ph was and taking into consideration my past grow without adjusted water, but MOST importantly the human aspect (ie me freaking out and chanign too much at once).. and THEN a group of ph'ers took it personally and thought that the people telling me not to ph were talking to every other grower, too. But they were just telling me not to ph for now. That theme has happened to several other members, too.

    This all seems to be getting lost in translation when I think we can all agree on one iimmutable fact..

    That fact is that SOME people do need to ph.. and some don't!!

    Just like some people need to water more often than others.

    Also like some need to add epsoms and some don't.

    Again.. like some have to use root hormones for clones and some don''t.



    So why the fuck are we taking this personally and arguing about it still? And even now that we've all realised that it's horses for courses for each individual we're still talking about the original mistranslation?



    Ok.. I'm going to start a poll on whether or not it's essential to use clonex, and I bet that by the end of it the votes will show that some do and some don't.

    I am the light of this forum and I am its mean twisted soul.

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  15. #28

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    pH / EC Meters & pH Control

    The pH is the most important factor for water culture gardeners to monitor because the pH of a nutrient solution reads the outcome of an electrical battle that is fought between the roots and everything surrounding them. When growing in pots, the run-off is the place to measure the pH level.

    Why should the pH be monitored? The protein and enzyme molecules in a plant are structured in very specific shapes in order to catalyze a chemical reaction to build the plant cells. To do so, they need reactant molecules to fit precisely into their gaps like keys to locks; this means that all the negative and positive charges have to line up exactly. In fact, plants often change their own cellular pH to stop or speed up a certain enzyme reaction.

    Three main things which change the pH that the plant feels are:

    The pH of the water you start with
    The growing medium (e.g. Rockwool is over pH 7.0, peat moss is - below pH 6.0, hardened expanded clay is pH 7.59)
    The nutrient, since it can be mixed to form many combinations of elements that behave in different ways and which give up their elements to the plant at different pH levels. It is only after going through these three stages that a nutrient solution is able to readily give the plant the elements it favours.


    EC in hydroponics

    Nutrient solutions are generally made up by following label dose rates. However, label dose rates usually fail to take into consideration issues that could cause the nutrient solution’s concentration to be either too high, or too low. This is where an EC meter can be a useful dosing tool:

    Setting the target EC: When making nutrient solutions, EC meters are useful for setting the target EC. The EC requirement depends on factors such as the stage of plant growth and the type of medium. Burning of roots or foliage can occur if the EC is too high. If the EC is too low, deficiency symptoms can occur.

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  17. #29

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    i see alot have issues about 4 to 5 week mark in bloom. lots of ph dropping and foods building...they require alot of food to grow and shape and make branches just as we do growing up as kids..teens and so on. once we get older we dont need as much foods or we get fat. our body changes hormones and so on...just as the plant does. and its about that flowering time that it happens. big change in hormone ballance when we flip the light. lots of fast growth...needing lots of food and mainly nitrogen. then that 12/12 stretch slows and stops a couple weeks in. thats when the larger food needs begin to slow to...begin..not stop. this is all a slow process. so over the next week or 2 the needs slow and change what the needs are more to phos and potassium side. it needs the heavier nitro to do its veg and beginning then it wont need as much. so its about then when i see the ph go out. and is usualy cause that food slowed and stoped its uptakes and began to build over that later couple weeks till it went so far the ph was down low and plants went for a shit..,..about 2 to 3 weeks in slow down a biut of foods. and drop ph a couple points to allow more phos and potassium and this also blocks the flow or availability of the nitro as well.

    once you get a better understanding on the needs and so on you can keep these things green from top to bottom right till YOU want them to yellow up.

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  19. #30

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    nice info baza

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  21. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.W. View Post
    once you get a better understanding on the needs and so on you can keep these things green from top to bottom right till YOU want them to yellow up.
    That's my personal holy grail of growing weed.

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  23. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Up_in_smoke View Post
    Mate, our water sources sound very similar.
    I can get away with veg too, no troubles, I put that down to it not being too long since potted up so the soil is still fully active sort of thing, by week 3 of flower when everything is yellow, they've been in the mud for 6 weeks or so and so any pH sort of scale that brought to the table is long gone, that and the fact the plant wants different nutes at that time.


    Pretty much same as me. By about the 3rd or 4th week flower (5 to 6 weeks 12/12) my plants start to go yellow on the tips and down the edges of the leaves. Next thing I see is the leaves go crispy brown almost over night. It usually looks as if I am getting light bleaching the way they go yellow. Also seems similar to mg deficiency but the veins don't go yellow it's the bits of leaves between the veins that go yellow and then crisp up. Certainly not the typical lack of nitrogen yellowing. Provided I keep on top of the pH of water that I put in I don't seem to have these problems so much (see pics below for some of the problems).

    I don't feed no more as the soils I have been using seem to have more than enough feed in them. If I do try to feed them I lock out even more and the buds never develop properly. I've just changed soil for my current grow and so far so good after I fooked the pH up in early veg. Again no feed on this grow and I'm hoping not to.









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  25. #33

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    right here...today is day one of week 6 for me and still green. and yes i had food build right as i said above. but knowing the ph and needs i was able to avoid any struggles or yellow and loss to end results.

    https://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-foru...cal-Grow/page4

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  27. #34
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    Yey everyone is getting along nicely now. Good good good.

    There is a lot of info in this thread that's very useful but also difficult to get your head round without reading it over and over again...........but it will make since eventually.........I still don't understand certain parts but that's part of the fun of learning.

    Peace.

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  29. #35
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    This might be useful to some people.

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  31. #36

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    nice chart mellowed

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  33. #37

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    Now looking at the chart,Lets say I go a problem and I some how find my soil is at a pH of 6.3 Does that mean the problem is calcium and magnesium def.I would like to think its that simple to diagnose a deficiency ????????


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  35. #38

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    the charts are generic and dont go as set in stone. when they where made we didnt have coco mediums or soiless ones. was mainly all soil/dirt or water.
    ..if your in soil or soiless and been feeding at 6.3 as i suggest and thats the run off there shouldbt be an issue. or the pen isnt right, or its a liquid tester. there could be issues but might not be in the medium then. could be environmental, that plays a huge role on food uptakes

    in soil or soiless i havent ever in my life seen or had a mag deff. nor have i seen one in others grows...if they didnt leave it to go to that point. when we say micro and macro foods we dont mean the size of the food. its how much is needed. mg isnt needed mush. we already have enough in the medium and things that are used to set it. and in our water. is it benneficial to use anyways...yes. more so for the cal as they usualy come together. better companies will also chelate the mg to make it even more avail in a bigger ph area. for anyone to get mg or even a cal deff something had to go realy realy wrong. and to not see nitro or other 2 larger ones is about impossible. ...and..to say what 1 single food started it or what 1 is deff is next to impossible to. they begin to be deff long before we see it with our eyes. and they all effect each other. so if 1 goes slight out so do others. and by time we see it there are usualy more than 1 showing. dont even waste time trying to think of what one. just look at numbers and adjust accordingly with water or more food at the right ph

    for me and them charts i look more at hydro for a soiless peat based medium...its about C.E.C and not what the medium is. read up on C.E.C helps alot.

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  37. #39

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    most cases when you see a burn. a deff....and check run off you will find a low ph and hi ec..lots of food but canbt eat it with low ph and salt build up to close the plant down. needs water and watch run off for numbers in ec to drop and ph will rise...on its own with just ph water. ph it to same as always use with feeds.
    if ph is hi then usualy see a low ec..needs food and it is defficient in the true meaning....or what most call deff.
    a plant will always show the same for to much food or not enough. just slight variation to how it shows...the rate of it.
    if we see a green leaf but a more quick burn on edges its more likley a ph issue. may show light tops and thin tops and twisted leaves from this.

    the firdst thing i watch for to keep ahead of it is the tops. that will tell current emmediate health in soil. older leaves that go are usualy from the plant taking the food to the tops so over a day or so them lighter tops will become green again...food isnt right if thats the case...ph isnt right...effecting the fod..or it dosent have enough food in medium.

    so if leaves fade green gradual then show burns its usualy the lack of food as its a slower loss.

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    Hi cw. I been reading all your posts regarding ph. I think you are spot on about checking ph in soil grows too.

    Alot of the probs you described above is what I've had on my last 2 grows. Gona invest in a decent ph meter cause I reckon my ph is way out. Thanks.

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