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Thread: Boy, 14, stabbed to death in Waltham Forest, north-east London

  1. #31
    Macky Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    LOL - you are trying to set up a straw man argument... I ain't going there!
    That isn't a straw man mate, the but about the crack epidemic in america can be called a straw man but not this one

    Possessing weed, should not be a crime, we can all agree there right?

    With random stop and search, the police can pull YOU aside at any time for no reason, and search you. Maybe on a trip back from the grow shop? Maybe after a session with friends? Maybe walking the dog with a smoke, when ever!

    Now, most of us here are growers, so if we were randomly searched, and the police found weed, or anything to do with growing, that would give them the right to search YOUR home. and they will find weed there. Then you get prosecuted. You did nothing wrong in the first place to get searched, the police just thought it was your turn.

    Right now, we can tell the police to pretty much fuck off! why you want to search me, ive done nothing wrong, I WILL NOT GIVE THAT RIGHT AWAY!! lol

    Instead of searching random people and violating our rights, why not actually prosecute the people who commit knife crime properly? Stronger sentencing and better education towards the consequences of carrying a knife would be the first path to take.

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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    That isn't a straw man mate, the but about the crack epidemic in america can be called a straw man but not this one

    Possessing weed, should not be a crime, we can all agree there right?

    With random stop and search, the police can pull YOU aside at any time for no reason, and search you. Maybe on a trip back from the grow shop? Maybe after a session with friends? Maybe walking the dog with a smoke, when ever!

    Now, most of us here are growers, so if we were randomly searched, and the police found weed, or anything to do with growing, that would give them the right to search YOUR home. and they will find weed there. Then you get prosecuted. You did nothing wrong in the first place to get searched, the police just thought it was your turn.

    Right now, we can tell the police to pretty much fuck off! why you want to search me, ive done nothing wrong, I WILL NOT GIVE THAT RIGHT AWAY!! lol

    Instead of searching random people and violating our rights, why not actually prosecute the people who commit knife crime properly? Stronger sentencing and better education towards the consequences of carrying a knife would be the first path to take.
    You are deviating from the thread subject to make a case that you can defend - a straw man argument.

    So are you saying that we should just let the youngsters carry their knives and instead look at harsher sentences?

    Whilst you say S60 is search with no reason, these figures are collated & police are not going to spend a whole shift searching people who don't fit a profile - & since we know it is coloured male youths in London causing these issues then I wouldn't expect many white middle aged women in the Midlands to be targeted... The biggest issue is people that have their own agenda to prevent stop & search, yours is the fear of being caught with weed on you - despite knowing it is illegal. Coming back from the grow shop with supplies will not give reason to a house search as no law has been broken, however carrying cannabis would give grounds to a house search. Don't carry weed if you are worried about being searched, it's as simple as that.

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  5. #33

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    Macks, we might have galactically different ideas on some issues, but you get me on this.

    "Profiling" might be illegal, but I don't for a moment believe that it is not applied. I am nothing to look at, just another face in the crowd. But there is a particular jacket that every time I wear it, at a certain perfectly legal and well lit and safe and heavily guarded location in the UK, some individual of authority would give me grief, treat me like a dangerous criminal. I don't even litter! Of course they find nothing, there is nothing for them to find! Doesn't stop them from associating whatever it is about me and that jacket and whatever experiences that have had though.

    Life isn't fair, we all know that. But that level of unfairness is getting ridiculous now.

    Not being funny here, all this talk about black on black or white on white etc. Whatever the heck happened to the yellows? Are they even on the radar? Why do they so rarely come up in these stats? Some might be assets to society, but lets be honest not all of them are saints. In other words, just like every other nationalities, races out there: Some people are good, some are bad, one can never tell just based on skin colour.

    I just think that this "Stop and Search" thing is not vaguely as simple as they make it out to be.

    I hope I am way off target on this, but disenfranchised youth will at some point look for "hope" and a new generation of some "new idea". This kind of movement happened in Europe, also in the Far East, and only mere decades ago. History will more than likely repeat itself if people don't or won't catch a whiff of it coming this way. All the troubles we have now will seem trivial compared to that.

    No, I am not para from unripe herb.

    As for knives? Seriously, friends of mine got threatened in a park during the day by thugs with a cordless drill. People that have a mind to hurt and plunder others will always have ways to achieve their goals. It's the boring ones that try to buy a can of energy drink or a kitchen knife that gets carded and or logged.

    At this rate if some cis-straight bloke who for whatever reason decides to take up knitting could well get cuffed and taken to the cop shop for a chat if he was caught with "sharp implements" and "rope"!

    Sorry to have started a political thing.
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  7. #34

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  9. #35
    Macky Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    You are deviating from the thread subject to make a case that you can defend - a straw man argument.

    So are you saying that we should just let the youngsters carry their knives and instead look at harsher sentences?

    Whilst you say S60 is search with no reason, these figures are collated & police are not going to spend a whole shift searching people who don't fit a profile - & since we know it is coloured male youths in London causing these issues then I wouldn't expect many white middle aged women in the Midlands to be targeted... The biggest issue is people that have their own agenda to prevent stop & search, yours is the fear of being caught with weed on you - despite knowing it is illegal. Coming back from the grow shop with supplies will not give reason to a house search as no law has been broken, however carrying cannabis would give grounds to a house search. Don't carry weed if you are worried about being searched, it's as simple as that.
    But, I should be allowed to carry weed, without the risk of consequences. The police have no right to search me, unless the suspect I am the perpetrator of a crime as far as I'm concerned.

    As I said, if the drug laws were to change, and being in possession of weed was no longer a crime then I'd be more inclined to stop and search. But as it stands, innocent people law abiding people, who mean no harm to anyone, stand a risk of getting a criminal record, losing their jobs and Lively hood just because they were walking down the road and the police decided to search them.

    Yes there is a knife epidemic in London, and stop and search would be a good deterrent. But you can bet there would be a shit load more drug prosecutions because of it.

    Whilst we have these bullshit laws, I have no trust for the police to have such powers. Other than the fact I grow and smoke weed, I am a good law abiding citizen mate, respectful and courteous, I don't even smoke around other people to avoid offending them.

    I keep the smoking on a down low, and don't smoke in the street or anything like that. I think it would be unfair, for me, to be pulled aside and searched in the street for no reason, for them then to find a spliff I might be carrying, and use that as an excuse to ruin my life, when I am doing no harm to any one. And giving the police stop and search powers like means they can do that, when ever they like, without a good reason. I'm not up for that.

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  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    But, I should be allowed to carry weed, without the risk of consequences.
    That is as far as I read before I started laughing!

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  13. #37
    Macky Guest

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    These things can get worse too,

    " the stop and search policy has been a massive success in reducing crime, we have decided the extent the policy under immigration law, you must carry I'd at all times, or risk prosecution . This will reduce the crime cause by illegal immigrants "

    Show me your papers lol.

    Seriously though, this is a slippery slope logical fallacy yes, but it has happened before, and it can happen again, we have to be careful not to hand our rights over over the false pretence of safety.

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  15. #38
    Macky Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_C View Post
    That is as far as I read before I started laughing!
    Do you disagree with that? Really?

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  17. #39
    Macky Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    Do you disagree with that? Really?
    Not like I'm trying to say I should be excused from the rules, I mean there shouldn't be a rule making weed illegal in the first place. We are not criminals for being smokers, regardless of if there is a bullshit law saying we are.

    Once they stop treating innocent stoners like criminals, my opinion may change, until then fuck the police lol

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  19. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    Do you disagree with that? Really?
    I am aware that I do not make the rules in this country & I am aware that breaking rules comes with consequences.

    Carrying cannabis is illegal & until that rule is changed I would expect consequences if I was caught carrying cannabis... in the same way I would expect consequences for carrying weapons or acid.

    We can't pick & choose the laws we obey.

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